Two Flaks on one sector

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Felishya
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Two Flaks on one sector

Post by Felishya » Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:19 am

Did you know you can create two flak station of any kind on one sector?
Didn't find it here in the forum. So just let me explain.

I've discovered this glitch about 2 years ago while playing with the Mykonians.
I did some testing in the last days:

- it works with any faction
- it works with all flaks and buildings with turrets (have to test the last one a bit more)

How does it work?
Just create the first flak station normally. Now it's time to be fast. Go to the creation menu and spamclick on the sector, while the first flak station is being created. If its done, the next flak station will be created on the same sector, only flattening the ground without destroying the turret unit.

Now you have a stacked flak station. They won't hit each other. They both work just fine. Could be a little bit overpowered :P

You can also combine any flakstation type (like Flak 1 + Flak 2) on the same sector.

Maybe this glitch is connected with the bug, that sometimes flak stations will stay on the map even if the connected host station gets destroyed. There is some delay.
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:05 am

Wow! Felishya, thank you very much for sharing this glitch with detailed analysis! This is very interesting to know, and I believe it was never documented or recorded anywhere else either.

I've stickied this topic in this subforum. Would you mind if we add this valuable information into the main bug compilation thread? :P Perhaps on our Wiki page as well under the tricks section, with a backlink to this topic here.

Felishya wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:19 am
Maybe this glitch is connected with the bug, that sometimes flak stations will stay on the map even if the connected host station gets destroyed. There is some delay.
Oh yes, it's definitely plausible! From what we've tested before, the surviving flak bug usually happened when AI host station was destroyed in the process of building a flak station. So I can see the connection.
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by Felishya » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:57 pm

CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:05 am
I've stickied this topic in this subforum. Would you mind if we add this valuable information into the main bug compilation thread? :P Perhaps on our Wiki page as well under the tricks section, with a backlink to this topic here.
Sure!

Some combinations for the double flak are a bit tricky. You can always combine the same type of flak without any problem. For example Mykoflak 1 & 1, Resistance Flak 1 & 1 and so on.

If you want, for example, combine the Mykoflak 1+ & 1, you have to create the 1+ first and then the Mykoflak 1, because the 1 needs a base. If you create a Mykoflak 1 first and then the 1+, the Mykoflak 1 falls to the ground. Have to do some analysis with all buildings on all factions.
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:50 pm

If I remember correctly, the Mykoflak 1+ was a custom flak variation that appears in Brachy's Mykonian Invasion Division mod, right? Which was quite identical to the Myko Bodenflak in the original game. :P

Thanks for the heads up! I'll have to keep in mind that the models of the base structures are relevant for keeping the flak guns in their places with this double flak trick.

Having said that, does anyone know how the MykoFlak's turret stays afloat in the air without any pedestal directly supporting beneath it? I'll have to see if there's a hard-coded routine (which is unlikely) for this or there's something I'm missing here...
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by Felishya » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:42 pm

If you create the Myko Bodenflak first and then the MykoFlak (the hovering one), it will have a base. If you create the MykoFlak (the hovering one) first and then the Myko Bodenflak, the turret from the hovering flak will fall to the ground because the Bodenflak (or 1+) will clear the base.
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:04 am

Oops... Sorry if my question wasn't very clear and suddenly went to off-topic, now I can see there was a room for the confusion. :D I'm aware that when the double flak technique is used, the second building's base sector model will replace the first building's base sector model.

What I'm curious about is how the MykoFlak's floating turret works in the game engine, despite the fact there is apparently no pedestal supporting its turret directly underneath it.

Generally, a turret that is not directly attached to a structure with a collision model will immediately collapse down to the ground; the Resistance Flak 1 turret is attached to its tower, while the BodenFlaks are attached on the ground, etc.

However, the MykoFlak seems like an exception. I know the MykoFlak's base sector has some rugged terrain characteristics on it, but I still haven't tested how it allows the turret to remain in the air without causing it to fall down below...
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by Felishya » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:28 am

The terrain is actually the base for the flak. Because if you destroy it, the flak will also fall to the ground. So the MykoFlak is actually connected to a building and it needs this base. Otherwise it will fall to the ground like any other flak :D
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:40 pm

Fascinating, you are right! :D

So I've just investigated this further, and the result was something I didn't quite expected.

The base sector of MykoFlak in all Sets, like all generic functional buildings, is universally assigned with a unique hexadecimal integer E4, and the sector 228 is comprised of a single subsector 122; which in turn has the following definition of subsector models when undergoing its destruction sequence:

Code: Select all

239 239 239 255
The subsector model 239 (BP_MFLAK.base; BPcMFLAK.sklt) and 255 (BPzMFLAK.base; BPoMFLAK.sklt) are both visually and functionally (not counting the durability) similar in most aspects; except one major difference I noticed later.

In the skeleton model of BPcMFLAK.sklt, there is actually a very minuscule square defined by width and length of 2 units, situated -420 units above from the origin of the sector coordinates and therefore stretching through all four quadrants!

Code: Select all

BF 80 00 00 C3 D2 00 00 3F 80 00 00 3F 80 00 00 C3 D2 00 00 3F 80 00 00 3F 80 00 00 C3 D2 00 00 BF 80 00 00 BF 80 00 00 C3 D2 00 00 BF 80 00 00

Code: Select all

00 04 00 18 00 19 00 1A 00 1B
These coordinates are defined from 24th to 27th vertices; and in the POL2 section of BPcMFLAK.sklt, there was indeed a command to define vectors for connecting these particular coordinates together, forming the valid collision model!

Considering that the MykoFlak's turret is located at -450 units above, with overeof value of 30 and radius of 170, this successfully offsets the potential empty space between its turret and this tiny lattice formation. Additionally, as I expected this final definition of the collision model is completely absent from the skeleton model of BPoMFLAK.sklt, which makes sense.

Therefore, if the MykoFlak's base sector has sustained sufficient damage (the subsector model 239 has a resistance value of 80) and eventually reach its final destruction phase, the MykoFlak turret will collapse down to the ground just like as you said! :)

After figuring this out I went to test the results in the game environment. The most surprising part is, soon I found out that this tiny collision model used to support MykoFlak did not block the units I was controlling, as if its occupied space was totally empty!

The test result here explains why it was always mysterious to me. The flak turret is there, but no collision model blocking my units when I pass through those locations? :P Could it be that the collision model is nullified or not working because it doesn't have any height values defined for it?

Something to test later, perhaps...
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Re: Two Flaks on one sector

Post by ReichsRitter » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:10 am

Funny how after all these years this game always offer something new to discover in it. :)

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