Discord Problem

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deetex
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Re: Discord Problem

Post by deetex » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:54 pm

You know what.
To hell with them.

I have better things to do with my time then waste it on children.
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Re: Discord Problem

Post by GoldStar611 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 pm

deetex wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:34 pm
Just noticed there's a whole roster of "admins", most of which I hadn't seen before.
Apparently these clowns have been around for a while, yet I haven't seen any one of them active in quite a while.
Hey don't talk about me like that. :lol:
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Re: Discord Problem

Post by deetex » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:07 pm

You're not around, by definition you don't count
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Re: Discord Problem

Post by CHILLYBUS » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:18 pm

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this was our exchange...and then you dipped after not even 15 minutes and just a quarter of the people tagged responding.

you were asking about SlimKid and Jerome earlier, and I told you the latter had been around for a long time. Discord lets you search by username -- a from: with his account returned ~50 pages of results on that server for me, stretching back to 2017.

SlimKid joined recently and was insta-promoted to admin...another thing to ask Fragger about, if you get the chance I suppose.

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Re: Discord Problem

Post by GoldStar611 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:24 pm

Tigerhawk has been around since before my time -- when UAHQ didn't have banner ads (the winace and aoe_danny days). Just a bit of trivia ;)
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Re: Discord Problem

Post by CHILLYBUS » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:29 pm

(the winace and aoe_danny days)

I remember using aoe_danny's random map generator at the ripe old age of...13? lol

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Re: Discord Problem

Post by ReichsRitter » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm

I used to lurk the Discord server for a while, and from what I've seen their administration definitely has some issues and problems. But no one can do anything (I guess even the admins?) because disagreeing with the owner would most likely result in getting kicked or banned unconditionally, without any pre-warning despite their written rules state multiple degrees of permitted violations.

Just read the conversation between Deetex and the admins took over there, and only CHILLYBUS took time and responded proactively (even here on the forums) to the issue at the hand while all the other admins were either slacking off or busy defending their own "certifications".


But so far everyone seems to have agreed that they really have no idea why they were put into admin positions at the first time. So the owner has a lot to explain about this.

After Deetex left the server, this one person named SlimKid who I believe has joined the server like yesterday, and somehow already granted an admin role said he/she will ban him when he comes back later, despite there's nothing wrong with what Deetex said and his points were perfectly valid, and the owner promptly agreed to it. Yet no one said anything about it, either.

The written rules are also never kept and kicks/bans are always issued based on an arbitrary, capricious manner depends on a whim of the owner or admins. And when that happens, no other admins will assess the situation and resolve it, because most of them are bystanders or don't pay attention what's going on. The kicked/banned people probably can't even make any complaint at all.


It seems like the guy who created the server is suffering from Napoleon Complex, and he attempts to put as many his friends into the admin role even if some of them probably don't even know about the game.

The owner seems to have a fondness to use "people are not being nice to each other" as an excuse to issue an unconditional ban. He should know that people can be only nice as long as there's mutual respect between each other. And when you lose it, people won't be very nice anymore.


My final words: Admin role in the current Discord server appears to be handed out as a simple gift to those whom the owner considers as close friends, rather than their actual contributions to the community or their administrative qualifications. This is extremely unprofessional.

This is a small community but it managed to stand the test of time thanks to the collective efforts of the members. Yet one immature person in charge of the community's main chat server is ruining everything with his irresponsible actions. One should not ban people so easily based on their personal whim, we're all same community members here.

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Re: Discord Problem

Post by deetex » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm

Well said, Reich. Appreciate the shout-out.


I Can confirm the above screen to be accurate, it matches my own records word for word.
It's funny, after I posted that and left, admitedly a move to prevent them from kicking and/or banning me thus beating them at their own game.... I received a number of friend requests on discord.

I have rejected them all., regardless of who or why.

It has been brought to my attention the current administrative roster is considered a poor choice, empowered and kept through mere nepotism and history, the latter of which should be a continues and active process.
Becoming an Admin shouldn't be a reward for veterency or knowing the right person... this role is one of authority, being the first and last line of defense against abuse and misconduct.

If this forum discord channel persists in employing one that has demonstrated willful neglect of duty and deliberate abuse of power(case in point, me calling him a power-hungry maniac abusing his own* channel, a comment made after he created a secluded channel for an -entirely different game- and then deleting it, prompting him to kick me from the server without so much as a peep), I do not feel this forum should associate itself with said discord server.

There are no checks nor balances. Appalling considering a large majority of us here seemingly adhere to a democratic system... unless you mean to tell us membership here is a privilege, not a right... and I would urge caution against that.
While true there are rules, a code of conduct, how can you expect us to adhere to that if we are expected to be beholden to what basically equates to the Tyrant's truncheon?

Didn't Guy Fawkes had a thing or two to say about that?
Last edited by GoldStar611 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed forum to discord channel to prevent confusion
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Re: Discord Problem

Post by CHILLYBUS » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:07 pm

Forgive me for quote-responding to everything, it's not usually my style but there's a lot to unpack here...
ReichsRitter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm
I used to lurk the Discord server for a while, and from what I've seen their administration definitely has some issues and problems.
I agree with this
ReichsRitter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm
and only CHILLYBUS took time and responded proactively (even here on the forums) to the issue at the hand while all the other admins were either slacking off or busy defending their own "certifications".
I only partially agree with this -- I 'defended' my 'certifications' though too. I think it's kind of odd to demand a meritocracy in a chatroom (let alone for a game this old) -- but I'll get to that in my next reply, I think
ReichsRitter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm
But so far everyone seems to have agreed that they really have no idea why they were put into admin positions at the first time. So the owner has a lot to explain about this.
I agree with this
ReichsRitter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm
The written rules are also never kept and kicks/bans are always issued based on an arbitrary, capricious manner depends on a whim of the owner or admins. And when that happens, no other admins will assess the situation and resolve it, because most of them are bystanders or don't pay attention what's going on. The kicked/banned people probably can't even make any complaint at all.
I kind of agree with this -- imo one of the problems of the server is nobody wants to take unilateral action, nor seems sure of who's actually in charge of what, if anything. There are a bunch of old rules that were drawn up to keep the peace between a few users who have long since been banned from the server because they couldn't stop antagonizing each other, and now it's mostly fallen back towards a generic 'keep stuff mostly on-topic and be respectful of talking to/about others on and off the discord server'. Further, there's no delineation between moderator and administrator roles, so when faced with an issue, people more personally suited to moderation rather than administration go 'hmm this might be problematic', agree with each other that something should be done, and then wait for either:

1. Fragger (as server owner) to take explicit action, which often winds up being a public sentence or two telling people to chill out

or

2. people to stop caring until it bubbles up again, which is the default answer because it's a small server about a game people hardly cared about 20 years ago, let alone in 2020
ReichsRitter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm
It seems like the guy who created the server is suffering from Napoleon Complex
I don't agree with this specifically but
ReichsRitter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm
and he attempts to put as many his friends into the admin role even if some of them probably don't even know about the game.
I do strongly agree with this. imo a discord server of that size really needs just 3-5 moderators at the absolute most, enforcing a ruleset that boils down to 'don't be a jerk'. With new additions in the last few days for reasons that are still unclear to the team already in place, we're up to a dozen. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
ReichsRitter wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:32 pm
The owner seems to have a fondness to use "people are not being nice to each other" as an excuse to issue an unconditional ban.
Kinda, yeah. I think conflict avoidance is okay to a fault, but too much of that leads to tensions like these.



All told, I think we mostly agree here.

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Re: Discord Problem

Post by CHILLYBUS » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:13 pm

deetex wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
I have rejected them all.
ouch, they probably just wanted to keep in touch. harsh!
deetex wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
the latter of which should be a continues and active process. Becoming an Admin shouldn't be a reward for veterency or knowing the right person... this role is one of authority, being the first and last line of defense against abuse and misconduct.
imo the first line of defense should probably be people not being dicks to each other in the first place. I agree that just being somewhere for a while shouldn't be the only requirement for stepping into that role (nor should the role be a reward in any sense), but if I'm administrating a server, that pool of folks who have been around for a long time is the first and probably only set of candidates I'm going to be looking at. newbies seeking 'authority' are typically not the folks you want running a server.
deetex wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
If this forum discord channel persists in employing one that has demonstrated willful neglect of duty and deliberate abuse of power(case in point, me calling him a power-hungry maniac abusing his own* channel, a comment made after he created a secluded channel for an -entirely different game- and then deleting it, prompting him to kick me from the server without so much as a peep), I do not feel this forum should associate itself with said discord server.
Couple of things --

1. As a point of semantics, nobody's employed or contracted to do anything on that server, it's all volunteers.
2. I asked this moments after you left the server but I'll re-iterate here: what 'duty' are you asking the team to carry out? What are we taking responsibility for?
3. Singular ownership of a server means that person is able to unilaterally do anything they want to with it. Tomorrow we could wake up and the whole server could be devoted to something completely different, though I sincerely doubt Fragger would do that. That system is not something we can change, and is inherent to Discord's service model.
deetex wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
There are no checks nor balances. Appalling considering a large majority of us here seemingly adhere to a democratic system... unless you mean to tell us membership here is a privilege, not a right...
Again, this is inherent to how Discord works. Membership being a privilege is inherent to how most internet services work. If you don't like it, set up shop elsewhere and ban everyone you don't want.
deetex wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
and I would urge caution against that.
or...?
deetex wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm
Didn't Guy Fawkes had a thing or two to say about that?
did he? ah yes, who could forget that famous 1607 quote 'unban me, you cowards, or I'm bombing these discord servers'

Snark aside, look, Deetex, here's how I see it:

1. Fragger made a channel for Renegade-X, an FPS with tactical/RTS elements. Fine in spirit, but I personally would have made a genre-focused channel to catch and discuss stuff like that and battlezone instead, since there are a handful of interesting games out there that share elements with UA. That Renegade-X channel's since been deleted.
2. Another user asked what was up with that channel (I did too around the same time in the admins-only channel, see below)
3. Then, you step in before Fragger has answered and jumped straight to 'just a power-hungry maniac abusing his channel'. I'm not going to assume your intent with that statement but just a guess...that statement was originally meant to be a joke. Not a particularly funny one, but Fragger took it as a dick move and kicks you.
4. You rejoin the server the next day and instead of messaging any one of the now-dozen moderators directly to ask about what happened, you jump straight to 'who are these mods and where did they come from?', a question which I could only provide an answer for half of (Jerome's case).
5. The screenshot I posted earlier plays out.
6. 15 minutes later, you leave the server to 'beat them at their own game', which, okay, sure, you totally owned us there I guess?
7. Fragger gets the ping after you'd gone and probably bans you for leaving like that, I haven't looked at the list. SlimKid made comments to that effect but has since deleted them.

All told, I think you and Fragger are each at fault and need to sit down like adults and work this out like adults. There's been some pretty critical miscommunication here that would have easily been solved had either party stopped for a second and DMed each other.

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