Im Leaving UA..maybe 4 ever...

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fabriciovic3
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Im Leaving UA..maybe 4 ever...

Post by fabriciovic3 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:20 pm

So,this been a long time,im been out for a while from Stoudson,but,id like to say a Thank You very much guys to keep this bluetorch alive and well,i lost my fabriciovic2 account,i forgot my password,but its time for me to get out,since year 2000,ive been playing this game,i ve learned how to mod,how to improve the Ua Trial version(check "my old mod 2007"topic in gaming mod section here on this forum,6 gaming levels instead of original 3),i have the Full version,i played with all human factions,i tried the alien ones,but im more human-like fan,sometimes i cheated,increase the power,the vehicles tab,replacing the power and flaks when its possible,and using the amazing "solacious Elvilfurz",as a anti-aircraft machine gun to protect my power stations,and a bunch o weasels to drop the enemy s air machines down,and when im pissed off or tired,using evilfurz to check mate them behind the enemy lines,as a kind of Chuck Norris special forces actions.
Ua is a late 1997 masterpiece,using computer graphics with an fast 3D for that times,and a open world like sandbox maps,cool and new thing for that times,the main guilt for bad sells was Microsoft,they cant use Marketing very well,they should promote a on-line championship,or somethings that happening today in gaming industry at that time,will be ahead of time again.
I play this game full version,in normal mode,but its too hard,especialy on stages like"command and taerkast"when the enemy is outnumbered than you,and you show how strong you are,but,you lost the same way,because CPU cheat this stuff,and after that i start to cheat and mod the game.
I personally see UA,as a war simulator,you feels like a 4 stars general,commanding troops,air and ground assaults,conquering territories,fighting againist more that one enemy troops,different scenarios,weather,day and night stuff,places like Stonehedge and Egypt,looks like today s wars,you saw the battle thru the vehicle s aim,and drop rockets and machine gun fire,or laser beans(plasma beans?),you see tracing fire at night,tracing rockets as weasel s rockets,you drive tigers or other heavy tanks againist enemy s flak stations,as a kind of world war 2 D Day feelings there.
My favorites"operation s theatre",are: Sibuna,because you have a street by street fight againist the soviets(i like to use tanks toghether with aircraft),in the"high town"or the surface part of the town,and you have the"labirinth fight"againist Black Sect because they are living on that cave,and looks like they were"mykonized"and they arent human anymore,Hamburger Hill,because that "california like"mountain,with a sunrise(or a sunset)is too damn high and we have to face a lots of Taerkasten tanks that is another epic battlefield,and "Slaughtering Fields"for obvious reasons,its another D day kind of map.
I Specially dont like the Alien Factions,despite the lack of realism(of course im wrong about realism in this game but),i tried the Rubik s cube ones,and the flying palmtrees after,but i did not like it,i did not like that small maps within this factions,that small corridors was a bad,real bad idea from the developers,but they still are genious dudes for me yet.
17 years i played this game,for me its time to stop now,and im with 40s now,i dont know if im grumpy old man(hahaha),but i dont like when after i play this game and when close my eyes and i still see the game imagery in my mind,im not liking it anymore,maybe because the strong colors like red,blue and yellow,and the maps frames,hahaha looks like im talking about the"Polybius arcade",looks like a took some kind of drug or something,hahaha,or its results of my pure concentration in the game.
So,for the newbies that are coming here,good luck,enjoy this game,learn how to mod,create your own version,or play the full version,its a masterpiece,i hope people from this forum promotes a championship,appears in a some of retro game fair,and show the world that UA terratols are alive and kicking,because i never saw a addictive game like that,and im a gamer..
Adeus,obrigado pessoal...fui!

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MarioSDU6/SDU7
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Re: Im Leaving UA..maybe 4 ever...

Post by MarioSDU6/SDU7 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:16 am

fabriciovic3 wrote:So,this been a long time,im been out for a while from Stoudson,but,id like to say a Thank You very much guys to keep this bluetorch alive and well,i lost my fabriciovic2 account,i forgot my password,but its time for me to get out,since year 2000,ive been playing this game,i ve learned how to mod,how to improve the Ua Trial version(check "my old mod 2007"topic in gaming mod section here on this forum,6 gaming levels instead of original 3),i have the Full version,i played with all human factions,i tried the alien ones,but im more human-like fan,sometimes i cheated,increase the power,the vehicles tab,replacing the power and flaks when its possible,and using the amazing "solacious Elvilfurz",as a anti-aircraft machine gun to protect my power stations,and a bunch o weasels to drop the enemy s air machines down,and when im pissed off or tired,using evilfurz to check mate them behind the enemy lines,as a kind of Chuck Norris special forces actions.
Ua is a late 1997 masterpiece,using computer graphics with an fast 3D for that times,and a open world like sandbox maps,cool and new thing for that times,the main guilt for bad sells was Microsoft,they cant use Marketing very well,they should promote a on-line championship,or somethings that happening today in gaming industry at that time,will be ahead of time again.
I play this game full version,in normal mode,but its too hard,especialy on stages like"command and taerkast"when the enemy is outnumbered than you,and you show how strong you are,but,you lost the same way,because CPU cheat this stuff,and after that i start to cheat and mod the game.
I personally see UA,as a war simulator,you feels like a 4 stars general,commanding troops,air and ground assaults,conquering territories,fighting againist more that one enemy troops,different scenarios,weather,day and night stuff,places like Stonehedge and Egypt,looks like today s wars,you saw the battle thru the vehicle s aim,and drop rockets and machine gun fire,or laser beans(plasma beans?),you see tracing fire at night,tracing rockets as weasel s rockets,you drive tigers or other heavy tanks againist enemy s flak stations,as a kind of world war 2 D Day feelings there.
My favorites"operation s theatre",are: Sibuna,because you have a street by street fight againist the soviets(i like to use tanks toghether with aircraft),in the"high town"or the surface part of the town,and you have the"labirinth fight"againist Black Sect because they are living on that cave,and looks like they were"mykonized"and they arent human anymore,Hamburger Hill,because that "california like"mountain,with a sunrise(or a sunset)is too damn high and we have to face a lots of Taerkasten tanks that is another epic battlefield,and "Slaughtering Fields"for obvious reasons,its another D day kind of map.
I Specially dont like the Alien Factions,despite the lack of realism(of course im wrong about realism in this game but),i tried the Rubik s cube ones,and the flying palmtrees after,but i did not like it,i did not like that small maps within this factions,that small corridors was a bad,real bad idea from the developers,but they still are genious dudes for me yet.
17 years i played this game,for me its time to stop now,and im with 40s now,i dont know if im grumpy old man(hahaha),but i dont like when after i play this game and when close my eyes and i still see the game imagery in my mind,im not liking it anymore,maybe because the strong colors like red,blue and yellow,and the maps frames,hahaha looks like im talking about the"Polybius arcade",looks like a took some kind of drug or something,hahaha,or its results of my pure concentration in the game.
So,for the newbies that are coming here,good luck,enjoy this game,learn how to mod,create your own version,or play the full version,its a masterpiece,i hope people from this forum promotes a championship,appears in a some of retro game fair,and show the world that UA terratols are alive and kicking,because i never saw a addictive game like that,and im a gamer..
Adeus,obrigado pessoal...fui!
It's a shame we see you leave. Yes, Microsfoft did it pretty bad on that regard, but, actually, the marketting wasn't the only main mistake from Microsoft, UA itself had too many flaws regarding gameplay, balance, variety, and even an inconsistent storyline (yep, a poorly written storyline, because most of the "mission briefings" suffered from continuity issues and never properly exploited the mature themes and cohesiveness :( , BUT... the game wasn't bad, it was decent at best and mediocre at worst, because it looks like UA was only used as a "testing ground" for another game (with middle-age themes), that was indeed failure.
At least the unreleased and almost 100% complete Metropolis Dawn gave us 3 new units, but honestly, it was to be much more. XD Although I was addicted to UA anyways, only the Trial, I played the full on 2009 and I could pass it, in part because I also saw EclipseTen's Let's Play Urban Assault vids. I eventually completed the game more times faster and faster, that I wanted to mod something, but with the idea that is "well-made", otherwise, it's uninteresting and challenging. My idea is to make
UA a true masterpiece for everyone, and I'm sure you'll like a heavily improved UA with much better gameplay (no, graphics are only a minor thing, and rarely decide the coolness of a game) because you already said UA was underrated, no?
All of these flaws I found them upon playing the game further and further with my own modding that had the intention of make it more challenging. It wasn't until 2012 that I decided to mod the multiplayer, and further, because of the terrible balance among factions and vehicles, going even further as I find out of flaws that weren't addressed yet.
The normal game of the original game, is hard for begginers that doesn't do the effort to complete the missions by finding out which units are OP (overpowered), otherwise, it's on the easy-moderate difficulty, which in this case you're forced to consult with the Resistance Campaign Guide of leftylink, therefore having to suffer spoilers about the roads to go to complete the game much more smoothly.
UA never had weather influencing. :lol: Although I am recently modding to make the map terrain influence, but ONLY in favor of the Mykonians, for example, if you play on a normal map, there's no influence, but if you play on Mykonized areas (with buildings and those stuff with Myko cables), the terrain DOES give the Mykos extra bonuses. Yeap, the developers never did excessive nor extreme Trial and Error to make sure the level (Sulog's Fine Thread) had an optimal difficulty (accessible for beginners, and challenging enough for veterans). XD
Well, technically anyone can still play, since gaming has NO age limits. ;) But there's a time where we have to dedicate ourselves into more interesting stuff. I still play UA and I'm 26 years old, but I don't play it as much because my job is to mod the UA 1.2.04 Beta, and it's not easy at all, considering most the stuff that must be addressed and fixed to revive it fully, and it's a long road to go.
I know you don't like the Aliens, also (in my opinion) because their "storylines" are quite poor. Good thing on UA 1.2.03 Beta I've had to make a new one that is much more creative, compelling, and complete for both Mykos and Sulgos, although mainly for Mykos, and I still have to do more and more WITH the intention of giving it continuity.

Even so, it was good to have you around, fabriciovic3. ;) I know ThomasFredson is not as active playing UA, only being admin and that, but if you feel the need to return, tell us, okay? :P
Intense Mod progress (it includes tests):
Resistance 100% done
Demo version uncertain fate
New Ghorkov and Taerkasten 100% done

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Factions of choice: Resistance, Ghorkovs, Taerkastens

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CharlotteLabyrinth
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Re: Im Leaving UA..maybe 4 ever...

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:34 pm

Hate to see another member departing from the forums. I hope you leave while keeping the best memories you had here with the others.

Farewell, and do not forget that there will always be a place to return when you reminisce about UA.







!--Warning: A Looong Off-Topic Post Below--!


@MarioSDU6/SDU7
MarioSDU6/SDU7 wrote:Yes, Microsfoft did it pretty bad on that regard, but, actually, the marketting wasn't the only main mistake from Microsoft, UA itself had too many flaws regarding gameplay, balance, variety, and even an inconsistent storyline (yep, a poorly written storyline, because most of the "mission briefings" suffered from continuity issues and never properly exploited the mature themes and cohesiveness :( ,
It is somewhat obvious that UA was not a game that has been designed with very solid and concrete storylines, but mostly with some filler 'lore' and 'backgrounds' that forms a basis of the game. I think this was even partly mentioned in Microsoft's interview with a few TerraTools members. Otherwise they wouldn't have decided to hide the most of segmented storylines in HELP files.

But I think you can't really put the blame on the developers for that. Before anything, UA has a concept of non-linear progressions throughout the campaigns. So it would be virtually impossible to put and arrange coherent storylines in each mission briefing, since the freedom of mission choices granted to players will surely mess up the order of story anyway.

However, I do agree that the first and foremost problem was mostly due to the developers' lack of concern for making consistent and intriguing storylines. Despite many plot holes and the cliché of apocalyptic, technocratic dystopian SF future, the background settings of UA world are definitely filled with many unique and creative factors in its own way, and with a lot more potentials to be developed further.


MarioSDU6/SDU7 wrote:BUT... the game wasn't bad, it was decent at best and mediocre at worst,
...
My idea is to make UA a true masterpiece for everyone, and I'm sure you'll like a heavily improved UA with much better gameplay (no, graphics are only a minor thing, and rarely decide the coolness of a game) because you already said UA was underrated, no?
...
also (in my opinion) because their "storylines" are quite poor. Good thing on UA 1.2.03 Beta I've had to make a new one that is much more creative, compelling, and complete for both Mykos and Sulgos, although mainly for Mykos, and I still have to do more and more WITH the intention of giving it continuity.
To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine a 'decent' or 'mediocre' game would suddenly become a 'masterpiece', just because it has some newly improved gameplay changes or more fanfictions written for it.

If you have such great ideas or talents to innovate an old game into a true masterpiece for everyone then, in my humble opinion, you will be much more successful with making your own game from scratch. In that way, you are not bound to the technical restrictions of modding in UA that we all know well, and your new creative gameplay or cohesive storylines will be recognised by gamers and game reviewers as your own personal works. As you said graphics are minor things so you can probably start small, and I can agree with you on that because a complete masterpiece game made in 2006 will inevitably have bad graphics than a complete rubbish game made in 2016. That's how it really works.

Anyway, I wanted to suggest it here because you always seem to be very confident and full of enthusiasm about what you do. Who knows if you might become a really prominent indie game developer with only your gameplay ideas and stories?


MarioSDU6/SDU7 wrote:... because it looks like UA was only used as a "testing ground" for another game (with middle-age themes), that was indeed failure.
Now I'm just genuinely curious... may I ask where did you get this information from?

As far as I know, none of the works from TerraTools/RadonLabs has a medieval theme except maybe Drakensang (please correct me if I'm wrong); and I'm having a hard time believing that the game released in 1998 (which also happens to be the very first game developed by TerraTools/RadonLabs since 1995) was only made as a 'testing ground'(?) for the game released in the far future of 2008, which is a completely different game in terms of a genre, gameplay, and world settings.

In all honesty, Drakensang was developed by mostly different developers. By the time the game was in production, many of the original TerraTools members who had participated in making Urban Assault were already moved on.

And most of all, I can't seem to find a single claim about the particular statement between Urban Assault and Drakensang anywhere. The only thing I could find is an interview on IGN with Bernd Beyreuther where he says along the lines of - "Even back in the days of Urban Assault, we were already dreaming of making a Dark Eye game(=Drakensang)", but it nowhere states that UA was a basis game or even a 'testing ground' for it.

I just want to know about the truth behind this rumour, that's all. I would appreciate if you could elaborate more on that.

MarioSDU6/SDU7 wrote:All of these flaws I found them upon playing the game further and further with my own modding that had the intention of make it more challenging. It wasn't until 2012 that I decided to mod the multiplayer, and further, because of the terrible balance among factions and vehicles, going even further as I find out of flaws that weren't addressed yet.
Lastly there is something I want to make very clear about your works in regard to altering unit balances in UA: Whilst I have agreed with you on many occasions that the original UA balance system has some flaws and problems, your efforts on re-balancing UA is also quite far from the conventional balancing works; as it is more like creating a completely separate set of new balance system which does not have many correlations between the vanilla UA balance.



While often easily overlooked, these two things are completely different and unrelated tasks. The former is how the most game developers normally release the 'balance patch' of their games. Generally it almost only consists of slightly altering stats and attributes of existing units, recalibration of units' costs, or sometimes physics of units - and all that with a very small degree of numerical changes each time.

The goal behind this is to preserve and maintain the initial intention and value of individual units against each other as much as possible. The final products of most games have a relatively well-established set of balance system that has been satisfactorily approved by developers and playtesters. So there is not much reason to go beyond it. In most cases, OP units are nerfed and UP units are buffed to a very slight degree, while all the other units simply remain unchanged.



In contrast, the latter is mostly used in personal mods or maybe in a sequel of the game. I consider this to be an extremely unorthodox method of 're-balancing' the existing game, especially when it comes to multiplayer games.

If any authentic game balance designers would have done this, it would cause a ton of game-breaking issues in a very short time. The main problems with this method are inconsistency and subjectivity. By doing so, the balance system suffers greatly from a total loss and confusion of existing correlations between individual units against each other.

Likewise, there is no guarantee that the new balance system is more balanced than the former balance system. Since everything has been changed so drastically from top to bottom, the original purposes or usages intended for each unit can be severely compromised or lost. This method also has a tendency to determine certain changes based solely upon a dogmatic decision of a changing person.



If UA ever had a much larger playerbase, or (especially) various groups and communities of dedicated and competitive players (like top ladder rankers in Starcraft II etc.) who are extremely knowledgeable about the every single mechanic and detail of the game, then such radical changes made to individual units would have surely caused a huge controversy amongst players.

That's why I once insisted on you to apply distinguishable names like 'Fan Patch' or 'Unofficial Multiplayer Patch' (Many games actually did this I think, like AoE2 or AoM) to your modded files before, in order to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding between standard multiplayer files to new players. But I assume it's pretty meaningless by now.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now... I must have to ask an important question, have you ever read a professional balance discussion taken in other games? Like, a foundational topic for producing 'balance patches' or 'user patches' in other games? Creators of these kinds of modifications hardly change something in a large scale simply because there is only a few reasons to do it, or because some people want to change it. They are very cautious to not change many things unnecessarily on a whim and to stay unbiased.

Such modifications take a huge responsibility, and require systematic, protracted analyses towards multiple in-game factors. A unit's cost, armour, damage, speed, height, manoeuvrability, AI attack pattern, or whatever else that is relative to situations against all other units must be heavily considered and scrutinised. It is imperative for one to constantly hold a macroscopic view at the whole balance system in general, predicting and calculating about all instances that how a single change would affect any other situation as well. Otherwise it's just a meaningless, unnecessary, and even detrimental change.

Fortunately UA is rather a lenient and flexible game when it comes to balance, thanks to the enormous and unpredictable impacts from terrains and 3D environments towards individual units' effectiveness; and of course the presence of powerful first-person user controls.

I have respect for your works at revitalising UA multiplayer and the modding community. But after I had a look into some of your works and changes (mostly unit balances), I couldn't help but have a doubt in regard to the actual process of how your works are being done.



Well, that was another unnecessary long post. Hopefully it does not annoy you or something; I have no intention of that. Also, I want to apologise for being grossly off-topic again. I will freely take any blame or penalty for it.
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MarioSDU6/SDU7
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Re: Im Leaving UA..maybe 4 ever...

Post by MarioSDU6/SDU7 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:12 am

I think we need Goldstar to move our "off-topic" comments to Urban Assault General, with something called "complaints" or something like that. I can't think about proper titles, though, can you suggest one proper topic in particular?
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote: !--Warning: A Looong Off-Topic Post Below--!

It is somewhat obvious that UA was not a game that has been designed with very solid and concrete storylines, but mostly with some filler 'lore' and 'backgrounds' that forms a basis of the game. I think this was even partly mentioned in Microsoft's interview with a few TerraTools members. Otherwise they wouldn't have decided to hide the most of segmented storylines in HELP files.

But I think you can't really put the blame on the developers for that. Before anything, UA has a concept of non-linear progressions throughout the campaigns. So it would be virtually impossible to put and arrange coherent storylines in each mission briefing, since the freedom of mission choices granted to players will surely mess up the order of story anyway.

However, I do agree that the first and foremost problem was mostly due to the developers' lack of concern for making consistent and intriguing storylines. Despite many plot holes and the cliché of apocalyptic, technocratic dystopian SF future, the background settings of UA world are definitely filled with many unique and creative factors in its own way, and with a lot more potentials to be developed further.
I may be too impulsive, that's right, in part because I'm also a bit on the perfectionist side. That's why I give too much concern on making it really good for everyone ALL time (yeah, I am ambitious). And yes, it is impossible to arrange fan-made coherent storyline in each briefing, but at least the briefings can also serve as "lore" for hidden info about what happened on the past, before SDU7's debut. UA has non-linear progressions, true, and it even serves for a few gimmicks that weren't implemented on a fan-made mod for UA yet, such as Power Station availability, for example, if the player gets Power Station 2, all of the other enemy factions (except Sulgogars) in the game can do Power Stations 2 in all missions, and so on, but implementing that is QUITE technical, and requires lots of Trial and Error, otherwise, it's gonna be a failure.

The BG settings, yep, as you said, has many unique and creative factors in their own way, and has the potential to be developed even further.
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine a 'decent' or 'mediocre' game would suddenly become a 'masterpiece', just because it has some newly improved gameplay changes or more fanfictions written for it.

If you have such great ideas or talents to innovate an old game into a true masterpiece for everyone then, in my humble opinion, you will be much more successful with making your own game from scratch. In that way, you are not bound to the technical restrictions of modding in UA that we all know well, and your new creative gameplay or cohesive storylines will be recognised by gamers and game reviewers as your own personal works. As you said graphics are minor things so you can probably start small, and I can agree with you on that because a complete masterpiece game made in 2006 will inevitably have bad graphics than a complete rubbish game made in 2016. That's how it really works.

Anyway, I wanted to suggest it here because you always seem to be very confident and full of enthusiasm about what you do. Who knows if you might become a really prominent indie game developer with only your gameplay ideas and stories?
For me it's much harder actually, though, in good part because we don't have money to buy everything! :lol: No, seriously, we don't have PS4 or XONE, we're mainly with Nintendo games, not all of them, but only the best.

Yeah, I also thought about that possibility much before, but the problem is, I am not a programmer like Zidane, and I would like to add some well-implemented gimmicks (with lots of Trial and Error, of course) that is generally impossible on vanilla UA. Also, another title would be used in place of "Urban Assault", and since I feel using the real world geography would cause controversies, I'd be making a completely new world map and geography that is unique. For example, Avatar: The Last Airbender and Korra have a completely unique world map, unrelated to ours. But of course, I'd be asking your help since you have a better "eye-for-detail" and "meticulousness" than me XD , and well, I do accept any help as long as the project is meant to be "universally successful".
Haha, yea, for example, Minecraft, it doesn't has too many graphics, but it has very good reviews.

But the truth is, that I don't always feel too confident that way, in good part because I am concerned the project MUST be well-made, and also, asking some help once in a while does offer a lot, especially if they point out flaws that would ruin the intended
experience for everyone. Yeah, I am a bit on the perfectionist side, as I've said before.
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:Now I'm just genuinely curious... may I ask where did you get this information from?

As far as I know, none of the works from TerraTools/RadonLabs has a medieval theme except maybe Drakensang (please correct me if I'm wrong); and I'm having a hard time believing that the game released in 1998 (which also happens to be the very first game developed by TerraTools/RadonLabs since 1995) was only made as a 'testing ground'(?) for the game released in the far future of 2008, which is a completely different game in terms of a genre, gameplay, and world settings.

In all honesty, Drakensang was developed by mostly different developers. By the time the game was in production, many of the original TerraTools members who had participated in making Urban Assault were already moved on.

And most of all, I can't seem to find a single claim about the particular statement between Urban Assault and Drakensang anywhere. The only thing I could find is an interview on IGN with Bernd Beyreuther where he says along the lines of - "Even back in the days of Urban Assault, we were already dreaming of making a Dark Eye game(=Drakensang)", but it nowhere states that UA was a basis game or even a 'testing ground' for it.

I just want to know about the truth behind this rumour, that's all. I would appreciate if you could elaborate more on that.
I heard that Drakensang "rumor" from LloydGarcia in a GR PM talk, but I think he's also quite serious about UA needs as many proper improvements as possible. The truth, is that I no longer care about that, since I'm more concerned with learning from the best stuff.
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:Lastly there is something I want to make very clear about your works in regard to altering unit balances in UA: Whilst I have agreed with you on many occasions that the original UA balance system has some flaws and problems, your efforts on re-balancing UA is also quite far from the conventional balancing works; as it is more like creating a completely separate set of new balance system which does not have many correlations between the vanilla UA balance.

While often easily overlooked, these two things are completely different and unrelated tasks. The former is how the most game developers normally release the 'balance patch' of their games. Generally it almost only consists of slightly altering stats and attributes of existing units, recalibration of units' costs, or sometimes physics of units - and all that with a very small degree of numerical changes each time.

The goal behind this is to preserve and maintain the initial intention and value of individual units against each other as much as possible. The final products of most games have a relatively well-established set of balance system that has been satisfactorily approved by developers and playtesters. So there is not much reason to go beyond it. In most cases, OP units are nerfed and UP units are buffed to a very slight degree, while all the other units simply remain unchanged.

In contrast, the latter is mostly used in personal mods or maybe in a sequel of the game. I consider this to be an extremely unorthodox method of 're-balancing' the existing game, especially when it comes to multiplayer games.

If any authentic game balance designers would have done this, it would cause a ton of game-breaking issues in a very short time. The main problems with this method are inconsistency and subjectivity. By doing so, the balance system suffers greatly from a total loss and confusion of existing correlations between individual units against each other.

Likewise, there is no guarantee that the new balance system is more balanced than the former balance system. Since everything has been changed so drastically from top to bottom, the original purposes or usages intended for each unit can be severely compromised or lost. This method also has a tendency to determine certain changes based solely upon a dogmatic decision of a changing person.
It's true it is out of place, in part because some UA players complained about how OP was the Myko XO1 Quadda, also, because I've had to live a very hard moment 3 years ago when I witnessed a heated discussion among French UA players after a match in vanilla UA in Gameranger (I didn't play that match), the discussion was because of Taerkastens, I don't remember if it was with Serp or Bronsteijn. It's also true it hasn't too much correlations, because for example, the Fox, Falcon, and Warhammer have much better homing capabilities and their projectiles move noticeably faster, at exchange of lock-on range (2 complete sectors for non-lock on, and 3 complete sectors for lock on), on my Fan-made 1.2.03 Beta. It would make no sense if a small group of Falcons or Phantoms have positive matchups against a few anti-air tanks in vanilla UA, huh?

Yeah, it's also separate because I find it too difficult to properly make a balancing mod among the existing vehicles in vanilla. I wouldn't know how much nerfed the Serp would be with all of the vanilla UA units available (without MD). It would be the price and its hurtbox, but I woudn't exactly know how much the balancing with relation to the other vehicles.

And also, I was aware of the dangers and consequences of modding the vehicles. I've had to take some painful risks, but with the intention of making as much Trial and Error as possible to prevent a flaw that makes said vehicle too powerful or too weak, and also with the idea the vehicle on one of these Trial and Errors, have the optimal stats. Vanilla UA has a glitch that allowed us to cancel the "salvo reload rate" of a vehicle, let's just say, a Yang, after you release the 30 bombs, and the
long reload rate (it's salvo reload rate) is present, you go to your Host or any other vehicle, and then quickly jump over the same
Yang that is reloading, and you'll see it's fully reloaded and can unleash (under your player control, of course) the 30 bombs. The glitch can be used in all vehicles with a salvo system. I hope Zidane someday finishes his UA:Source on the Multiplayer part, to see if he could negate that glitch on a future version. Brachy would actually hate me because of these changes in the Fan-Made UA Beta, but he hasn't said anything yet.
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:If UA ever had a much larger playerbase, or (especially) various groups and communities of dedicated and competitive players (like top ladder rankers in Starcraft II etc.) who are extremely knowledgeable about the every single mechanic and detail of the game, then such radical changes made to individual units would have surely caused a huge controversy amongst players.

That's why I once insisted on you to apply distinguishable names like 'Fan Patch' or 'Unofficial Multiplayer Patch' (Many games actually did this I think, like AoE2 or AoM) to your modded files before, in order to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding between standard multiplayer files to new players. But I assume it's pretty meaningless by now.
Yeah, that's true, but because UA had poor sales, well, the rest is story. But even so, it's better your "Fan-Made Mod" term since it's shorter and more people can easily understand it. Brachy could potentially do a much better balance fan-made mod than me, but he's no longer as active as before, and he's too conservative. Too changeable and too conservative are bad extremes, that's why I must balance myself between "conservative" and "changeable" to avoid any potential issues.
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:Now... I must have to ask an important question, have you ever read a professional balance discussion taken in other games? Like, a foundational topic for producing 'balance patches' or 'user patches' in other games? Creators of these kinds of modifications hardly change something in a large scale simply because there is only a few reasons to do it, or because some people want to change it. They are very cautious to not change many things unnecessarily on a whim and to stay unbiased.
I think I did, although I mostly learned from these gameplay "terms" from Smash Bros and Starcraft, such as "hurtbox", "range", among other things. And well, they don't change it because almost no one heavily complains, and it is a signal the balance is optimal enough, not 100%, but optimal enough, to prevent heated discussions among top players and modders.

Also, it's true what you said, no video game has 100% balance among the units. Not even my Fan-made Mod has a guarantee of having 100% balance among the vehicles and factions, the playtesters only agreed it was impressive, but I don't say it's 100% balanced, I only do my best to make sure there aren't heated complains from the playtesters, I also learned that from Wolfeingmer and LloydGarcia, they are quite demanding, but good friends.
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:Such modifications take a huge responsibility, and require systematic, protracted analyses towards multiple in-game factors. A unit's cost, armour, damage, speed, height, manoeuvrability, AI attack pattern, or whatever else that is relative to situations against all other units must be heavily considered and scrutinised. It is imperative for one to constantly hold a macroscopic view at the whole balance system in general, predicting and calculating about all instances that how a single change would affect any other situation as well. Otherwise it's just a meaningless, unnecessary, and even detrimental change.
It's true, a huge responsibility, a titanium will, meticulousness, eye-for-detail, inspiration, and also a great deal of effort and time since no mod is actually easy to make. It's time-consuming, but once well-made and approved by the players, it's worth, but no mod is perfect, there's always a possibility to improve it even further in case some flaws are present and not even addressed yet. So yeah, a constant need to address flaws players would point out, and make sure to give a truly epic and fun experience, otherwise, failure. (Haha, yeah, I ask too much, I also have a "Do or Die" attitude :ninja: )
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:Fortunately UA is rather a lenient and flexible game when it comes to balance, thanks to the enormous and unpredictable impacts from terrains and 3D environments towards individual units' effectiveness; and of course the presence of powerful first-person user controls.

I have respect for your works at revitalising UA multiplayer and the modding community. But after I had a look into some of your works and changes (mostly unit balances), I couldn't help but have a doubt in regard to the actual process of how your works are being done.
It's natural you doubt and you see the negative drawbacks, it helps. Although sometimes I've had to learn to take risks and make sure these edited parameters look as good as possible for everyone. Conservative people will usually clash with people always willing to bring change, and viceversa, because each side wants to make it as properly fitting as possible for everyone.
And I don't think you've annoyed me, I can't expect to please everyone, anyway. XD I think any "constructive criticism" is welcome.
Intense Mod progress (it includes tests):
Resistance 100% done
Demo version uncertain fate
New Ghorkov and Taerkasten 100% done

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Factions of choice: Resistance, Ghorkovs, Taerkastens

GoldStar611
BlackSect Creator
BlackSect Creator
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:16 am
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Re: Im Leaving UA..maybe 4 ever...

Post by GoldStar611 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:11 am

Eh, you know anything goes on this forum until it gets reported.

Im also sorry to see another fan leave but we must all continue to pursue our interests.

It would be great to get the "salvo reload rate" glitch documented (a little) on the wiki ;)
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fabriciovic3
Firefly
Firefly
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:15 pm

Re: Im Leaving UA..maybe 4 ever...

Post by fabriciovic3 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:42 pm

Oh,boy,i love you all guys,but this offtopic discussion,looks like when im dying,and my relatives are fighting on my funeral,hahahaha,after that my grave is rolling down the street hahahaha,XD,so,sdu,keep on jorney,and Charlotte labirinth,if you are a girl,gimme a call,maybe..we can be more than friends because i hate friendizone,im pro libido hahaha,people,relax,and i recommend you guys hear all Saint Pepsi s discography..aka Ryan the Robertis,the big nose man...he is the new kid in town....

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