Liberty's screwed!

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Brachy UA FREAK
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Brachy UA FREAK » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:16 pm

I didn'T say that all democrats are good.
Michael Moore said that the problem in the US is that if you vote for democrats and they screw things up you cna vote for republicans on the next vote, but what do you do if they screw things up... that is a problem of the US and also the super duper freedom [ which is based on the constitution].

Civil Liberties are only useful to a certain degree. I.e that every idiot can buy a gun is just stupid [ look at the nr. of people who die annually due to weapons in the US]


What's quality journalism for you?
And why can't a independet blogger not be a serious source? I agree that these bloggers can be really retarded and have no clue about the subject.
But what if it is a prof of an university about the certain subject, or just someone who is really intressted in the subject and therfor has a certain knowledge of the topic...

BTT: PIPA and SOPA are nearly off the table and from my point of view there is no need for discussion about PIPA and SOPA itself anymore; but about the topics around it and I think that the discussion isn't boring at all...
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Edward Fox » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:29 pm

I have no issue with bloggers in and of themselves but if someone is going to list only two points of support they could be significantly less biased. My issue with this particular blogger is that he offers no supporting evidence and does not cite the bills themselves. Furthermore as a tech blogger on a Ubuntu site his objectivity is clearly compromised.

Quality journalism is a source which can cite specific material i.e. excerpts from press conferences or judicial work. I would like to see evidence before I pass judgment on an issue, not mere opinions. I generally defer to the BBC or the Wall Street Journal.

Also SOPA and PIPA do seem to be stagnant for the moment.

Michael Moore said....
Please do not ever cite Michael Moore as a source. He is a flaming hypocrite and about as logical as George W. Bush but on the other side of the political spectrum.

I also fail to see how freedom is a liability as you seem to imply.
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by CuSToM_94 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:36 am

Edward Fox wrote: The United States is, on the whole, still in the top ten five of freest states in the world. Grow up and develop some perspective.
It's no longer in the top and there to many reasons for that if search in google you well find why and if u want some links to know why here it is:

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... -the-brave
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/0 ... 27072.html
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... f-the-free

and about the video, I'm not posting the video just to let you hear some people chatting while playing FPS. That's not the main reason.I posted it to let you know how bad can that SOPA thingy be .
if what the guy said in the video is wrong then, tell me what's not wrong :o
Edward Fox wrote: I also fail to see how freedom is a liability as you seem to imply.
what's your concept about freedom??
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Brachy UA FREAK » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:53 am

Michael moore is not the best person of course but he mentions a lot of problems of the US, on which I partwise agree with.
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Edward Fox » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:04 pm

I never said that the United States was without issues. I am well aware of some of the cherry-picked stories you are posting such as the banning of bagged lunches in the Chicago school or the removal of the basketball hoop. In general though the U.S. is still among the freest states in the world. If you go to a non-biased statistical site such as Freedom House, the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute you can see for yourself.

Again I am not claiming perfection but I also refuse to believe that a website called endoftheamericandream.com is going to be very honest.

I am also not claiming that the video is wrong simply that I can find no reason to believe that he is right either. I have read up on the bills and cannot verify the dramatic claims being made and see no reason to take him at his word.

I am not out to defend every move made by the United States government in the past several years but simply to ask for the equivalent of citations. And since I am tired of this heated back-and-forth which is going nowhere I will not be posting on this topic again until I see any.
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Thomas Fredson » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:25 pm

The only thing here is a proof that anywhere you go, highest ranked persons still want more than what they already have. Don't be blind, all they want is money, nothing more! They don't care about our point of view. They don't know that what they call piracy is instead a wonderful promotion mean for all kind of artists all around the world (don't be stupid to think that they make their life and money by selling CDs, only labels get rich that way) and I, personnaly, got to discover lots of bands this way and I now follow them as a real afficionados! Thing is that as I stated previously, high ranked people have a $500 bill for a brain. They live, they breathe, they eat, they sleep only for money and getting richer. This always was, is still, and forever will be...
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by CuSToM_94 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:17 pm

completely agree with Thomas
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Edward Fox » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:18 pm

Of course "they" want money. I want money. You want money. Have you bought anything in the past week that was not a commodity? How about the internet connection you are using to access this site?

Of course "they" want more money. But how are "they" any different from those who commit piracy? Every time you acquire a pirated good you have more money in your pocket. Are you claiming that it is wrong for producers to maximize wealth but acceptable for consumers to do so?

The reason I am "blind" as you put it is because there is nothing to see. Who are "they" that do not care about other's opinions? You are vague to the point of meaninglessness.

Also there is far more to piracy than the battle between recording studios and small artists. It also includes (the main impetus for SOPA and PIPA) deliberately reproducing major studio films and proprietary software. Stop cherry-picking your examples. (I also doubt that small independent bands would be happy to have their meager profits reduced through piracy.)

Thomas Fredson wrote: They live, they breathe, they eat, they sleep only for money and getting richer. This always was, is still, and forever will be...
Stop spewing platitudes like this.

P.S. If it forever will be why bother fighting?
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Brachy UA FREAK » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:42 pm

Actually I don't really want more money, I'm fine with what I have got...

The problem with the greed of TNCs is that they give a f*'ck about being social or caring about right or the environment.
This lead to NGO who tell the people what sh't these TNC plan or are doing. Now if the NGO's make a parody of this TNC the TNC can go the internet provider and force him to take down the website because of SOPA and /or PIPA.
This leads to a cut in the civil rights or libertys ( or how they are called).

So it is a : freedom of speech vs right of intellectual property.

And I don'T understand why you fight for SOPA and PIPA ( or at least it looks like).
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Re: Liberty's screwed!

Post by Edward Fox » Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:11 pm

Freedom of expression and protection of intellectual property are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to support both.

I am not a supporter of SOPA or PIPA as they currently stand but I do feel that it is very important that steps are taken to protect existing intellectual property regimes. You seem (though I am not sure) to believe that such institutions are unnecessary.

My other issue is that you are moving up and down levels of analysis (and veering off topic) and it is difficult to following your reasoning. What non-governmental organizations are you talking about? SOPA and PIPA are United States bills and the only parties involved are high technology corporations, the U.S. congress and the Department of Justice.

What NGOs are you taking about? As far as I can tell most IP protection comes from states. The Berne Convention (for example) is based of of European Union Council Directive 93/98/EEC. http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 098:EN:NOT

Can you please find an example of an NGO which has had significant influence on intellectual property law? (I happen to specialize in non-state actors in the international system and am genuinely curious.)
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