UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

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MarioSDU6/SDU7
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UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by MarioSDU6/SDU7 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:32 am

Because UA is still hard-coded, our only hope is the project Zidane is doing with UA. Which means we can't edit the established icons for the host stations and that.

Because the space for the icons and keyboards for these icons on the TYPE_NS.fon was getting more limited, I've had to improvise further, even doing as much "Trial and Error" possible to make all of these icons work (btw, the last 4 icons on the lower right were made by Bronsteijn24k):
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Maybe with Zidane's project we can expand the H_Finder programming even further for even more unit icons. This H_finder I made is old, but I was originally going to expand the icon usage even further, but it was impossible because the H_Finder has a canvas size limit:
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I played as the Yellow Black Sect (the Taerkastens aren't replaced at all, only on that map applies), USUARIO played as Blue Sulgogar. As a rule, the Black Sect on Multiplayer can't have the invisibility for both, or else, they would be OP. If you ask the dark orange-ish thunder icon, this is a Temp. P. Station, or Temporary Power Station, that gives no energy nor asks you sectors, they work as free "Outposts" to deploy forces from afar
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I sent my buffed Myko Static against his USUARIO's Naughty Plants, but in the end I got all of them shot down
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I sent my stolen Tekhs against his NP (Naughty Plants) while over an Temp. P. Station
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Ormu and I discussed about programming different-colored host icons, but it was impossible, it was hard-coded, so Zidane is our only hope:
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Notice the original icons I edited them to make them look smoother while working on 1.2.01 Beta.
Intense Mod progress (it includes tests):
Resistance 100% done
Demo version uncertain fate
New Ghorkov and Taerkasten 100% done

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Factions of choice: Resistance, Ghorkovs, Taerkastens

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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by Bronsteijn24K » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:13 am

MarioSDU6/SDU7 wrote:Because UA is still hard-coded, our only hope is the project Zidane is doing with UA. Which means we can't edit the established icons for the host stations and that.

Because the space for the icons and keyboards for these icons on the TYPE_NS.fon was getting more limited, I've had to improvise further, even doing as much "Trial and Error" possible to make all of these icons work (btw, the last 4 icons on the lower right were made by Bronsteijn24k):
Image

Maybe with Zidane's project we can expand the H_Finder programming even further for even more unit icons. This H_finder I made is old, but I was originally going to expand the icon usage even further, but it was impossible because the H_Finder has a canvas size limit:
Image
Nice man your doing God's work.

Also I couldn't help but notice this sprite:
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ITS ALL WRONG!!!

Here I fixed it for you:
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You can thank me later 8-)
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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:32 pm

I like how you did put the low-energy yielding 'beam points' that do not interfere with players' energy production capabilities. :D Although as much as I enjoy the slow and piecemeal gameplay style in UA (less beaming; more chess-like play with macro/micro focus), I also thought the same thing for a long time as beaming has always been an extremely essential part of the gameplay, especially in a multiplayer game to stay active and mobile.

Once we could have a chance to renew/reform the various multiplayer functionalities. It would be great to have a different set of game rules as well; such as a customisable hard limit for the number of beaming chance (say, 10 to 20 for example) available to each players and instead, players can move around their host station freely without spending any energy in normal situations. :) Just like how AI controls host stations.

It would also greatly alter the existing metagame ideas and involved strategies in UA and will make the game much more diverse and unpredictable, but the different rules call for different balancing tasks. If beaming is restricted, Taerkasten would suffer on larger maps as their map control capabilities are rather limited to others (Ghorkov has the best map control in the game, by the way) and their units are generally slow.


If new gameplay rules are to be applied, the performances and features of each unit should be re-evaluated as well.

For instance: While X01 Quadda may be an extremely powerful and cost-effective unit per se, their slow speed means they can't track and hunt down the opponents' host stations. (To be honest, back when I played the multiplayer I don't really remember getting killed by Quaddas unless it's a relatively small map; they are just too slow and the players can simply react fast and destroy them with AA units or just beam away. :lol: Besides, their armour is weaker compared to other heavy tanks which are important for the base dropping tactic, although Quaddas still work wonderfully.) Which is very important to contain and disrupt opponents' activities.

In this regard, Gigant is much better as it can quickly and constantly track down enemy host stations over the map with their speed. But of course it has lower cost-effectiveness and weaker armours. After all, my point is that the value of each units really depends on situations and map layouts, but all units should remain useful under certain circumstances; so careful planning is imperative because we don't want to make units lose their own distinct specialities with radical and prejudiced changes.


Also, might I ask in which way did you buffed the Statics? I would be interested to know as back in the original UA their preferable usage was pretty much limited to picking off heavy tanks from afar, and it was only possible if there is no blocking elevations in the way. However, Statics can also be substantially useful in complex environments if the player can exploit the various terrains and structures to take cover while picking off tanks coming from the narrow places between buildings. But still, they are so fragile (especially against planes) so they won't last long before doing something useful without any support. :x Additionally, because Statics can barely move at all they are literally a sitting duck against everything. Limits their usage exclusively for defence in conjunction with other flaks and units.

Mykonians are already the most micro-intensive faction with their manoeuvrable, powerful, yet expensive units. So it is not really advisable to stay in Static for a long time anyway. :P Now i have come to think of it, shouldn't Mykonian also need a 'chaff' unit (cheap units to distract enemies' targeting system; Firefly, Ying, Serp) of some sort? Since all other factions have at least one of them. The Static model could be also used to create a standalone unit used for this task. But I have nothing to say if one prefers scout satellites for the job...

In my opinion, the unit's idea was great but badly executed. Being a 'mobile flak station', one of my thoughts were to change nothing but increase its shielding so it can survive and hold their position to annoy enemies longer (while giving a slight more chance to fight back against the Mykonians' everlasting nightmare - the player-controlled Warhammers!), while also prevent it getting killed in a matter of seconds from nearly anything so the 700 energy would not be wasted for almost nothing. Otherwise increasing their damage multiplier against host stations to discourage base dropping (or conversely, attacking enemy host station from a distance) could be an option as well. ;) I wouldn't increase the speed or change other characteristics of the unit as it will destroy its interesting concept and also does not correspond with the unit name: Static.


I may have written a long off-topic materials. But whatever you do, I wish you the best and get a desired outcome with your efforts.



PS: Now this post just reminded me how imprudently I swapped the 'Type_NS.fon' with 'visproto.lst' in my other post... :oops: It's been a while since I edited the icons, and I'm pretty sure everyone else had already noticed my error at there. If it happens, would really appreciate to get a correction as I tend to have a bad habit of throwing up information from my brain without double-checking veracious sources, mostly due to the lack of time or just through sheer laziness... :(
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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by MarioSDU6/SDU7 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:55 pm

CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:Once we could have a chance to renew/reform the various multiplayer functionalities. It would be great to have a different set of game rules as well; such as a customisable hard limit for the number of beaming chance (say, 10 to 20 for example) available to each players and instead, players can move around their host station freely without spending any energy in normal situations. :) Just like how AI controls host stations.

It would also greatly alter the existing metagame ideas and involved strategies in UA and will make the game much more diverse and unpredictable, but the different rules call for different balancing tasks. If beaming is restricted, Taerkasten would suffer on larger maps as their map control capabilities are rather limited to others (Ghorkov has the best map control in the game, by the way) and their units are generally slow.

If new gameplay rules are to be applied, the performances and features of each unit should be re-evaluated as well.

For instance: While X01 Quadda may be an extremely powerful and cost-effective unit per se, their slow speed means they can't track and hunt down the opponents' host stations. (To be honest, back when I played the multiplayer I don't really remember getting killed by Quaddas unless it's a relatively small map; they are just too slow and the players can simply react fast and destroy them with AA units or just beam away. :lol: Besides, their armour is weaker compared to other heavy tanks which are important for the base dropping tactic, although Quaddas still work wonderfully.) Which is very important to contain and disrupt opponents' activities.

In this regard, Gigant is much better as it can quickly and constantly track down enemy host stations over the map with their speed. But of course it has lower cost-effectiveness and weaker armours. After all, my point is that the value of each units really depends on situations and map layouts, but all units should remain useful under certain circumstances; so careful planning is imperative because we don't want to make units lose their own distinct specialities with radical and prejudiced changes.
Yeah, that's what Custom_94, LloydJara, Wolfeingmer, and I have been discussing about the rebalancing of units. It's likely the Quadda returns to their original stats in case Brachy does indeed dislike it, although for now it works well, despite the nerfs on raw firepower (against Power Stations) and damage multiplier (against Hosts) coupled with its buffs on speed, armor, and having now a machine gun (I didn't know that unused Quadda model until I found it out on my own while making 1.2.01 Beta). In fact, Kazuki was still able to destroy USUARIO's Skorpio with Quaddas, but that was because he did weaken USUARIO's Power Stations enough with Ground Cubes that USUARIO stayed defenseless.
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:Also, might I ask in which way did you buffed the Statics? I would be interested to know as back in the original UA their preferable usage was pretty much limited to picking off heavy tanks from afar, and it was only possible if there is no blocking elevations in the way. However, Statics can also be substantially useful in complex environments if the player can exploit the various terrains and structures to take cover while picking off tanks coming from the narrow places between buildings. But still, they are so fragile (especially against planes) so they won't last long before doing something useful without any support. :x Additionally, because Statics can barely move at all they are literally a sitting duck against everything. Limits their usage exclusively for defence in conjunction with other flaks and units.

Mykonians are already the most micro-intensive faction with their manoeuvrable, powerful, yet expensive units. So it is not really advisable to stay in Static for a long time anyway. :P Now i have come to think of it, shouldn't Mykonian also need a 'chaff' unit (cheap units to distract enemies' targeting system; Firefly, Ying, Serp) of some sort? Since all other factions have at least one of them. The Static model could be also used to create a standalone unit used for this task. But I have nothing to say if one prefers scout satellites for the job...
Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about the buffs with the Static, especially since it's a rarely used unit. I've had to give a firepower of 65 (it's a slight nerf, but anyway), but it fires now 3 shots, according to what I based on the original HELP files, but this would be subject to changes :lol:

Code: Select all

;
;       BLOCKER
;   
;       WAFFE FÜR MYKONIER 3 (STATISCHER)
;       3fach Laser.
;
new_weapon      66
        model                   =       rocket
        name                    =       BLOCKER
        wireframe       =       wireless/otlw65.sklt

        energy          =       6500
        mass                    =       10.0
        force                   =       135000
        maxrot                  =       0.0
        airconst        =       540.0
        start_speed     =       200
        life_time       =       1625
        shot_time       =       420
        shot_time_user  =       420
      	radius          =       125

        vp_normal       =       190
        vp_dead         =       189
        vp_megadeth     =       189
        vp_genesis      =       22              ; DUMMY
        vp_wait         =       22              ; DUMMY
        vp_fire         =       22              ; DUMMY

        type_icon       =       I       ; debug

        pal_hit_slot            =       2
        pal_hit_mag0            =       0.38
        pal_hit_mag1            =       0
        pal_hit_time            =       100
        shk_hit_slot            =       1
        shk_hit_time            =       100
        shk_hit_mag0            =       1
        shk_hit_mag1            =       0
        shk_hit_z               =       0
        shk_hit_y               =       0
        shk_hit_x               =       0.1
        shk_hit_mute            =       0.02

        dest_fx	= 	death_120_0_0_0
        dest_fx	= 	death_124_0_0_0		; STRAHLS

        energy_tank		= 2.0
        energy_heli		= 1.24
        energy_flyer	= 1.24
        energy_robo		= 0.3

        radius_tank		= 360
        radius_heli		= 180
        radius_flyer	= 180
        radius_robo		= 100
The Static, as you've seen, has increased damage modifier against ground and air, but I've had to reduce a bit further against hosts, from 0.5 to 0.3, because of that "delay" and "lag" during multiplayer matches, besides, I've defended myself quite well with Bombers and Heavy tanks each time LloydJara made a Eisen or Leonid Drop (I always OHKO them to make sure they don't damage my Power Stations further), and also with AA tanks each time he does an Hetzel or Quadda drop, all of them during 1.2.01 Beta. A nerf is that they cost 750, but even so, it worked me nicely, but not the best results, as he still destroyed them anyway, when I've had to deal with Wolfeingmer's Ghargoil 2s:
Oh, btw, I was experimenting with another gimmick when playing on Mykonized maps, that's why the Static has 20% armor, and because we played on a map that is 3-vs-Myko (Smear the Mykonians)
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Someday Zidane's project will make "Diplomacy" between factions possible, to make sure, none attack each other, and only attack that specific faction, but also to make all friendly sectors and their upgrades shared.

However, the most notable change, at least until Zidane's project goes further and makes the Static a much better and appropiate unit, is that the "model" was changed:

Code: Select all

        model                   =       plane
        
        mass            =       75
It was originally on "zeppelin", which limited its aim greatly, when I changed that to "plane", it still acted as the same, but because it rotates "much more freely" than before, it allowed to be much more accurate against their targets, both in human and AI control. Also, I've had to increase the "mass" to not be pushed as much and to allow counterattack much more easily.

Well, about the Static armor, how much it must have for 1.2.02 Beta? Of course, without the Mykonian bonus on Mykonized maps?
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:In my opinion, the unit's idea was great but badly executed. Being a 'mobile flak station', one of my thoughts were to change nothing but increase its shielding so it can survive and hold their position to annoy enemies longer (while giving a slight more chance to fight back against the Mykonians' everlasting nightmare - the player-controlled Warhammers!), while also prevent it getting killed in a matter of seconds from nearly anything so the 700 energy would not be wasted for almost nothing. Otherwise increasing their damage multiplier against host stations to discourage base dropping (or conversely, attacking enemy host station from a distance) could be an option as well. ;) I wouldn't increase the speed or change other characteristics of the unit as it will destroy its interesting concept and also does not correspond with the unit name: Static.

I may have written a long off-topic materials. But whatever you do, I wish you the best and get a desired outcome with your efforts.
Yeah, definitively, I hardly care if the idea of units are great, these are "aestethics" :lol: , I only care if it's well-executed in the metagame and in single-player, and the Static on the original UA is terrible, as you said, it is rarely used and it offers poor results in both mid-level and high-level play. Although again, I can return the Static to some of its original stats, and then address and edit some of their flaws to make them more successful, without erasing its concept in favor of "better results" in the metagame.

Yeah, it's good you got specific and with long info, I often do the same thing! :lol: And thanks ;) , I know I'm still far from the best-best, because of many things I have to adjust to make it much more varied, especially since I have faith on Zidane's project, but at least, consistent "Trial and Error" does make a difference, on one of these tries, it will be the ideal stats.

Last thing, more screenshots:
This one is from Fort Bravo 1.2.01 Beta (3-vs-Resistance). LloydJara got me with the guard down, I eventually took down his Eisenhans with my buffed Marauders, but I've also had to recapture the Temp. P. Station before he could beam again and make in my face either Eisen, Hetzels, Mnosjetz, or Leonids
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This one is from Smear the Mykonians, I've had to edit the map size because UA lacks diplomacy settings, and well, I hope Zidane makes it possible for all levels. Wolfeingmer was about to send in more Ghorkov units against me with the Temp. P. Station he captured from my hands. LloydJara (or Kazuki, just one of his nicknames), with Taerkasten, also captured one of my Temp. P. Stations
Image

I wanted the upgrade from Wolf so bad, I used my improved Myko Bomber, but I should've went more above :P , and Wolf eventually shot down my Myko Bomber with his AI Speedies
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The debriefing results since Wolf dropped via UA crashing randomly, Ghonkov was the Resistance, I was Mykonian, the main "objective"
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Intense Mod progress (it includes tests):
Resistance 100% done
Demo version uncertain fate
New Ghorkov and Taerkasten 100% done

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Factions of choice: Resistance, Ghorkovs, Taerkastens

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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by Bronsteijn24K » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:47 am

Like the temp. powerstation idea, I went ahead and made a "Delta" sector for you. Dont know what it could be used for but it could be useful. ;)

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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by MarioSDU6/SDU7 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:42 am

I see you haven't answered my question Charlotte! :lol: In your opinion Charlotte, how much armor percentage the Myko Static should have to be a better unit overall? Is that I talked with Kazuki about that, but he remained silent, instead waiting for your opinion about Static's new armor percent? (without the Myko bonus of course that is 20%) It currently has 0% because of the buffs, and originally has 1%, but how much percentage should have, in your opinion?

These screenshots were taken with Fraps, and we were playing on All versus Me! (2-vs-Resistance), I was Resistance, against both Ghon and Kazuki:
Image

But Ghon got careless with me while I was stalling Kazuki's Taerkasten forces, that I killed the Ghorkovs:
Image
Intense Mod progress (it includes tests):
Resistance 100% done
Demo version uncertain fate
New Ghorkov and Taerkasten 100% done

Image
Image
Image

Factions of choice: Resistance, Ghorkovs, Taerkastens

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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:48 pm

I sincerely apologise that I did not answered your question Mario, and thanks very much for the reminder. :)

I appreciate your consideration to take my word into your work. But the reason I could not answer your question at the first time is, it seems that your patch data is heavily modified from the vanilla standard. So, at this point I am not really sure about whether my opinions which are purely based on the vanilla game would be adequately applicable to your modded files in a beneficial way. :?

And it's for a good reason: Since I am not fully knowledgeable about how other units in your data are modified, I cannot compose a comprehensive judgment for a Static alone; the game balance should be always evaluated and maintained from a macroscopic view.

The current difference between the original Static and your modded Static seems substantial. Especially 70 to 195 damage change is quite huge at the moment. In the original game, Static can deal 140 DPS (233 with an user-control). With your new scripts now it can deal 464 DPS for both AI and user-controls.

Because the Static had already gained a much stronger firepower than before, I question if the armour value increase is a wise decision on top of that... Additionally, I think there is not much difference between 1% armour between 0% armour, the first gives 378 net energy and the latter just 375. :mrgreen:


Anyway, to answer your question I would not change anything (as a first step!) but increase Static's shield to 30% or even 45% because of following reasons:

I had focused my rationale behind this at the major weakness of Statics: jet fighters with powerful guided missiles. When not considering these jet fighters, Static is not that bad in itself, really. As you may know, they could be actually useful for guarding friendly tech upgrade sectors or simply as a measure of quick defence around a host station.

Also, for the simplicity, be aware that I truncated any numerical value starting from decimal places in this entire post. ;)


In the case of 30% armour:

350 energy with 30% armour grants Static a net energy worth of 500. This will allow a normal Static to withstand a shot fired from a Falcon and Tien-Ying 7, but will not survive from a shot fired from a Warhammer, Serp and a Phantom.

When user-controlled the Static will have 1250 net energy which are enough to withstand 2 shots fired from a Falcon, Warhammer, Tien-Ying 7 and a Serp but still only one shot from a Phantom.


In the case of 45% armour:

350 energy with 45% armour grants Static a net energy worth of 636. This will allow a normal Static to withstand a shot fired from a Falcon, Warhammer, Tien-Ying 7 and a Serp, but will not survive from a shot fired from a Phantom.

When user-controlled the Static will have 1590 net energy which are enough to withstand 3 shots fired from a Falcon and Tien-Ying 7, and 2 shots fired from a Warhammer, Serp and even a Phantom.


I wanted Statics to hold their ground against their agile predators, because jet fighters are just too effective against anything that is flying in the sky. It's also funny how Statics could get killed by Serps so quickly since there's nearly nothing they can do against, even evasion is not an option because they literally can't move at all. 700 vs 180; 4:1 cost expenditure is just downright outrageous. :x The only thing reliable is their fast vertical shift to take cover or dodge missiles. Anyway, in both ways, Taerkasten can still employ 3 Serps to cost-effectively destroy (540 vs 700) a player-controlled Static, not counting the miss.


Because Static is such a 'gamble' unit that risks a high opportunity cost to a Mykonian player, my intention was to make the unit to be more solid and reliable than before so it can be used in more general situations and become less influenced by externalities. Solely increasing the damage of Static would also work but it still implicates an idea of "I kill you fast and you kill me fast", which still encourages the controversial Static to remain as a gamble unit. :(


You can actually find a specific armour distribution is used with the original Warhammer and Tien-Ying 7, where their energy to armour ratios are subtly designed to be always shot down from two Serp missiles when user-controlled (1200 damage vs 1180 / 1166 net energy) Considering how much damage they can inflict to Taerkasten if they are not shot down quickly, this was a proper design decision from the developers. :D

However, I would let user-occupied Static to take three Serp missiles when user-occupied Air Stick still takes two of them. Statics are much less of an offensive threat compared to these fast movers and they tend to act more like a defensive sentry turret guarding the area.


Interestingly, there are some valid points that could possibly salvage Static from its shame. :arrow:

Whilst it may not be clearly distinguishable, the available unit composition in many UA multiplayer levels are controlled by the abstract 'tier' levels. In other words, some units are more widely available than others in most of time.

Despite its hefty cost, Static is definitely an 'early tier' unit (The other 'irregular' case being a Myko Bomber, which is essentially an identical unit to Marauder yet costs twice(!) and possess a much weaker shielding. Although its weapon have some advantages under user-control.) that is readily accessible to Mykonians in most multiplayer levels. :idea: Generally, they are available to Mykonians by default or otherwise, their tech upgrades are relatively closer to Mykonian territories.

On the other hand, Hourglass, which is a much more stronger and versatile unit compared to Static or Myko Bomber, falls under opposite categories of it. Perhaps it might explain their role of being 'Giffen goods'...

The funny thing is, when these tier factors are put into a consideration, most jet fighter units are not quite accessible by default in many levels compared to the Statics, which could effectively extends their survivability and usefulness. I am not sure if these vague concepts are a legitimate concern and therefore should be scrutinised for a justification of balancing works though. :|


I have also induced my conclusion from one of the main critical factor in RTS game balancing. It is universally applied that in most RTS games, speed and shield are two contradistinctive qualities to each other.

Generally, faster units have weaker armours and vice versa. I think in UA, it's pretty much a fair trade where vehicles' and weapons' diverse physical characteristics alone can make the game so much more different in its volatile 3D environment. :geek:

Statics are nearly incapable of making horizontal movement, and this fact nullifies their 'strategic' speed value to almost zero. (Adimittedly, their quick vertical shift definitely reinforces their tactical manoeuvre.) So in turn, they should have a stronger armour akin to other flak stations in the game.

But suddenly increasing Static's armour level to a flak turret standard can affect its balance towards other vehicles, and as we know the unit is still quite strong when player-controlled. So I have set only a modest value for them.


Despite all these complaints I have made, Static has a defined height level of 20 which means that in normal situations, they will just hovering near the ground level to effectively counter incoming tanks. As a consequence, on a level mostly comprised of flat elevations, the AI-controlled planes will not be able to attack AI-controlled Statics so easily and vice versa. Even the Serps will just keep flying over their heads without actually targeting. But we know it's always a human presence that overrides these kinds of implicit game mechanisms. (Like those moments where helicopters and bombers fly up into the stratosphere :lol: )

Initially, I wrote more about some other balancing aspects in this post, but for now I will stop here and reserve them for later posts. :ugeek: I think we could discuss about balancing extensively someday, it just seems too much and out of topic to be covered at here.


P.S: The 'plane' class type indeed allows more flexible angle of attack for vehicles, but I didn't considered that for a Static because the unit is also known as 'Boje' in scripts, which means a buoy. :P

In my opinion, the 'Dreifach Laser' refers to the graphic of Static's weapon, instead of suggesting that the three weapons are fired.

It's nothing important but I see a Hourglass's weapon name used for a Static's weapon, was it intended? The original weapon name for Static is 'BERGSACHSE'. As I said, it's nothing important but just curious. :ninja:

I also suspect the greatly increased weapon radius is there to compensate the huge latency problem in the UA netcode?

For the unused machine gun models in game, I think Ghargoil 3; Yang; Hetzel and Mnosjetz also possess them in addition to Quader.
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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by MarioSDU6/SDU7 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:22 am

CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:I also suspect the greatly increased weapon radius is there to compensate the huge latency problem in the UA netcode?

For the unused machine gun models in game, I think Ghargoil 3; Yang; Hetzel and Mnosjetz also possess them in addition to Quader.
Sorry about my really late reply, one days of those I was testing with ThatOneGuy the 1.2.02 (and I've realized a few things I'll be fixing for real for the 1.2.03 Beta). :ninja:

Yes, UA has that latency problem, that "delay" as I'd call it, that's why the Myko Static's weapon has very high weapon radius: for example, if the 3 shots hit a Fox, in normal circumstances (offline), 1 single hit is needed to destroy the Fox while the other 2 shots try to hit more targets, but in Multiplayer, the 3 shots will actually hit the Fox and there will be a delay of 0.5 seconds or 1 second before the Fox explodes.

I talked with Lloyd about the new Static armor 2 weeks ago, but he was in between 30% and 45%, so I assumed he said 37% armor for the Static during the 1.2.02, and after a few tests, it made the Static much more viable, albeit not OP, only more viable, balanced enough.

Well, more 1.2.01 screenshots I have to reveal to you:
Lloyd (Mykonians) tried to siege USUARIO's captured Power Station with Ground Cubes, but obviously with the changes, USUARIO eliminated his GCs with his Nahtepas (Ghorkov Medium Tanks) so easily:
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USUARIO sent more of his forces to beat Lloyd, but if he does, he would take all sectors and he would be much harder to beat (in actuality Lloyd did destroy USUARIO's Skorpio):
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USUARIO (Ghorkov) tried to attack Lloyd's Mykonian base with his Ghargoil 2, but it was eventually shot down:
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It was a rather even fight, but I hardly had to do anything, but this battle was draw because Lloyd fell minutes after killing USUARIO (it happened after his internet was cut off for a while, however):
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This map was Battle Fortress (it is actually a modified version from the map from Devast8tor pack and also from the multiplayer_add-on_level_pack_4.0. I was playing against Sebastopol85 (we 2 had 1.2.01):
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Actually, the Mnosjetz is still available, except that the Taers have another new vehicle, one that while it's not OP (after testing), it's still viable in several situations, it's called the Kejutan (which means "Shock" in Malay language), quite useful against Bombers, and other Tanks, but struggle against Anti-Air Tanks and Fighters:
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I was also testing again, with ThatOtherOne (he was Ghorkov) and D3yko (this time he was Yellow Black Sect), this time I was Blue Sulgogar. As I couldn't guess which units D3yko had, I've had to rely on my offensive prowess, but the battle ended in draw, well, almost draw, because of the "huge latency" issue:
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The debriefing, on one D3yko attacked ThatOtherOne...:
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...but on the other image I went into offensive against D3yko's Black Sect (I lost several units :lol: ):
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This stage is called "Ego Triangle 2-vs-Red (Ghorkov) (FoW)", and this level is where both Resistance (ThatOtherOne) and Taerkastens (D3yko) have to kill the Ghorkov host (in this case, my red host must be destroyed):
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Knowing if the Resistance (ThatOtherOne) captured that Temp. P. Station, he could start massing an offensive against me, same if D3yko would've captured it instead. That's why I used a Ghargoil 3 to slow down their progress:
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This is the debriefing, I've had to struggle to protect both upgrades on both upper corners:
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Intense Mod progress (it includes tests):
Resistance 100% done
Demo version uncertain fate
New Ghorkov and Taerkasten 100% done

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Factions of choice: Resistance, Ghorkovs, Taerkastens

Ormu
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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by Ormu » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:36 pm

I have to say this looks quite incredible. Those snowy textures are especially cool. The idea of non-powered beam points is interesting too.

Someday Zidane's project might provide us better modding opportunities if he removes the many restrictions that UA has.
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Re: UA 1.2.01 Beta about Black Sect

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:28 pm

Those are looking very nice! Especially I like the new Ghorkovian medium tank idea. Speedy and Tekh-Trak are technically a light tank and a heavy tank in their respective classifications. Although Speedy's superior firepower and Tekh-Trak's faster movement speed allowed them to be used in parallel with an abstract role of a quasi-medium tank, Ghorkov never had a genuine medium tank unit which is essential to quickly inflicting heavy damage to enemies, specifically dealing with other tanks (especially lighter AA tanks) from the ground level in an effective manner. The tactical flexibility and cost-effectiveness of medium tanks are welcome.


The most important thing to remember is: Every new unit added into the game must have their own independent usages which do not overlap the role of existing units, while contributing to the diversity and solidity of effective gameplay strategies. :!:


Take the official Metropolis Dawn expansion as an example, the three new units were added into the game to either reinforce the weakness of factions (Ostwind, Crusher), or to add more variety into how the game is played (Thor's Hammer). :arrow:


Thor's Hammer (Odin) : Thor's Hammer was not a strictly necessary unit for maintaining the balance of the game, as Taerkasten already possesses two very powerful, multi-purpose tanks. However, the existence of this brand new super-heavy tank allows Taerkasten players to employ some very interesting tactics. 8-)

This howitzer unit is basically an extremely adamant mobile artillery gun platform, that is designed to destroy other tanks and host stations. Thor's Hammer's weapon has an extensive range that goes beyond the fog of war, so the potential usage of the unit is drastically increased when manually controlled by players, just like a Rhino. However, since it fires a heavy artillery shell that is greatly affected by a ballistic trajectory, it requires a careful aiming to hit the targets from distance.

On top of that, Thor's Hammer have a minor role of indirectly capturing sectors for Taerkasten while in a battle, as its weapon fired upward will eventually hit the ground. This unit becomes even more useful when placed on higher grounds. When user controlled Thor's Hammer is quite unstoppable, especially when combined with its monsterous machine gun the unit can hold its ground against most units for a long time.

Thor's Hammer is also similar to Zeppelin as its high armour and energy draw 'hard counters' units from the opponents. In the case of these units, the hard counters are generally planes, bombers, or heavy helicopters which are quite expensive units. By taking advantage of this fact, a Taerkasten player can make the opponents to waste their energy by preparing some Serps or Phantoms at the base, take direct control of either vehicles to enhance their shielding, and send these AA units whenever the opponents employ expensive units to deal with a player controlled Thor's Hammer or Zeppelin. :lol:


Ostwind (Kettenfahrzeug) : Taerkasten always lacked a proper early air defence capability. The only early Taerkasten unit that can fight against other air units adequately was Hetzel, but it had its limitations and was not a truly dedicated AA unit. Serp is fast and powerful but it can't be used as a stock AA unit for obvious reasons. Also, especially against Firefly or Ying, the Serp becomes totally cost-ineffective! Phantom is strong and resistant, but it is also bulky and quite expensive to be used against numerous air units.

This is where the Ostwind is most needed. It is a perfectly designed unit to provide a constant AA support from the ground level. Ostwinds' missiles are very accurate and also able to quickly clear the skies around them from hostile airborne threats towards friendly ground units. It is also quite reasonable that Taerkasten receives yet another valuable tank units that can perform different tasks, since Taerkastens are supposed to have strong tank arsenals as a part of design decision.

Like Thor's Hammer, Ostwind serves multiple functions of indirectly capturing sectors for Taerkastens while in a battle. I remember it was possible without a lock-on? When attacking the low flying targets, their weapons will spread and hit the ground, capturing the sectors beneath and therefore lessening the player's work. I'm pretty sure you are already well aware of this fact, by the way. ;)



These two Taerkasten units are subtly designed to facilitate the sector capturing works of a Taerkasten player. I can say it is a pretty smart idea, as we all know that Taerkasten struggles the most at manually capturing sectors with their lacking map controls. :D

It is also important to note that Ostwind's weapon is a precision guided missile, and this means the unit is a dedicated anti-air tank just like Weasel or Ground Cube that is specifically designed to shoot down any air targets. This is in comparison to Fox and Speedy which are technically a light tank with some anti-air capabilities, and this information is also found in game files. Since their weapons are not precisely guided, they are not a truly dedicated AA tanks.

Both Fox and Speedy are pretty much supposed to be a jack-of-all-trades kind of unit, while Speedy is much more faster and stronger but also costly and have very weak armour than other light tanks. So anyway, they should not suddenly benefit from additional firepowers against aircrafts, or acquire precise weapons to shoot down fast air targets easily. It will make them too strong and in the case of Resistance, will eliminate the reason to use Weasels against other aircrafts. :?:



Mykonian Crusher : Similar to Ostwind, the Crusher has made its way in order to compensate one of the Mykonian's weakness - The lack of staple light/medium fighters. :)

If Taerkasten lacked the reliable, general purpose STA defence methods, Mykonian lacked the reliable, general purpose ATA defence methods against other aircrafts. The only true AA fighter unit Mykonian had was Air Stick, which is very fast and powerful but rather expensive and also not always available in every multiplayer levels. Well, maybe they didn't included at first time because Ground Cube is pretty much the most effective AA tank in the game. :woah:

Just like Ostwind's weapon, Crusher's weapon is also designed to push enemy targets far away from their current positions. Which can effectively disrupt the position or formation of enemy squads. When it comes to a 'knockback' power, Crusher's weapon design allows it to be capable of pushing the targets much, much farther away than any other weapon in the game. This characteristic of Crusher's weapon allows it to be quite effective against slow air targets, ranging from helicopters to Zeppelin, as it will swiftly force enemy units to disengage from a combat zone. I still remember that it was quite successful using Crushers to interdict and push away player-controlled Bronsteijns in one of the LAN party.

However, compared to its counterparts such as Ying or Falcon, Crusher is quite disadvantegous at direct combats as the unit's damage output per cost is not very high. But it does have fast turning and relatively fast speed to make up for it. Anyhow, Crushers are supposed to be more effective against the helicopters than the other planes, as otherwise, Mykonian would not have access to affordable hard counters against helicopters without Air Stick. :P



========== Below is an addendum regarding further discussion ==========

In the Urban Assault engine, building structures won't take any damage from weapons at all if the weapons cannot deal more than 4 points of damage to the structures. Both Ostwind and Crusher's weapon deals 20 points of damage per each missile, and thus if a structure has a defined armour value higher than 80 in sector definition files (SET.sdf), neither of those weapons will damage the structure. The similar instances can be found with Weasel and Ying's weapon (which deals 30 points of damage per weapon). :geek:

I'm confident that this sort of damage distribution was made because developers did not wanted those units to be able to capture power stations. The common trait between Weasel, Ying, Ostwind, and Crusher is that they are cheap, fast, and staple AA vehicles that are also effective at capturing numerous sectors in a short time. Therefore, allowing them to be able to capture power stations on top of that would make them too OP, and probably the worst is: discouraging the role of other units. :ugeek:



Likewise, some units in the game are intentionally designed to suffer from subtle disadvantages in order to compensate their strengths. For example, Jaguar has an insanely high damage output per unit, as it is one of a few units which do not suffer from extended reload time penalties under AI-controls. One of a 'plot twist' that goes contrary to the common belief is: when it comes to AI-control, a single AI-controlled Jaguar has a higher DPS than a single AI-controlled Tiger! :awsm:

However, there is a huge trade-off for it. Despite being a medium tank, Jaguar possess an attack pattern that is similar to light AA tanks which is basically a hit-and-run tactic. This is actually very detrimental to Jaguars and greatly lowers their individual efficiencies in a combat, as they will constantly make attempts at going back and forth with their slow speed, instead of focusing at providing steady fire supports from a distance just like other tanks would do. Because of this intentionally designed defect, the efficiency of Jaguars increases drastically when they are mixed with other types of unit, or when used en masse. :woah:

In the case of 5P0 Air Prism, despite being a basic unit, the 5P0 is extremely overpowered when player-controlled as most early units from other factions can hardly fight back effectively against it. At here, the trade-off is that AI-controlled 5P0 is relatively ineffective in most situations compared to enormous potentials under human-control, and the unit is quite expensive for a basic unit like other Mykonian vehicles. Therefore, it is extremely imperative that the precise distinctions between each unit's potential capabilities must be scrutinised and maintained in both human and AI controlled situations. :mrgreen:



Trivia: One thing I found interesting is that the two Taerkasten tank units added into Metropolis Dawn have their designs exclusively based on two WWII vehicles (Selbstfahrlafette IV A for Thor's Hammer; Katyusha Rocket Launcher for Ostwind), while the original Taerkasten vehicles were mostly based on WWI British/German vehicle designs. So, I thought if the new units are to be added then their names should preferably connotate the geographical or conceptual roots of each factions, in order to make the units be more coherent and conceivable to their affiliated factions. :idea:

Resistance: North America, Western Europe; NATO or EU.

Ghorkov (Kyternesia): Eastern Europe, East Asia (i.e. Eurasia); Soviet Union or the 'Eastern Bloc'.

Taerkasten: Central/Northern Europe (origin-wise). Retro-cult based on various esotericism ideas.



All the above discussions are simply for suggestions and/or some minor references, by the way.

EDIT: Added some more info, hope no one minds about that. :ninja:
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; Vielleicht der niedlichste Hubi, Knuddel.
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Personal Declaration: I always use different usernames across different websites. Hence if you ever see my username is being used outside of Stoudson Corporation, I absolutely have no affiliation whatsoever with that!

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