UA:Source

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Fra6160
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Re: UA:Source

Post by Fra6160 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:13 am

Paholainen wrote:
Fra6160 wrote:Another thing: in the beta, AI of your faction seems more efficient, while your AI in the final version looks like more stupid and weak.
:shock:

Could you elaborate on that? What is exactly more efficient with your units in the beta? Does your units just have more energy/shielding or faster fire rate (I'm asking about those attributes because they are easy to modify in the save files)?

Are the more efficient units limited to the Resistance faction or are the units efficient on any faction you play as (For example, you play as the Ghorkovs fighting against AI Resistance Host Station, are the Resistance's or Ghorkovs' (AKA your) units more efficient)?
Actually I'm talking only about Resistance AI, because I haven't had the chance to play online with someone in the BETA 1; in any case, Resistance AI seems to be stronger: it seems to act like enemy AI! For example, it isn't as weak as your AI (whatever faction you play as) in the final version of the game.
I don't know if they have more energy, but surely they fight better, they don't act like "retarted" against enemy AI. Besides, I noticed that the Resistance Flak Station1 shoots faster!
THE FALL OF SDU MOD WORKS IN PROGRESS (16%) - STOPPED - ABANDONED

Download it here: http://www.gamefront.com/files/20703518 ... a+Demo.rar


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Re: UA:Source

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:24 pm

Fra6160 wrote:
Paholainen wrote:
Fra6160 wrote:Another thing: in the beta, AI of your faction seems more efficient, while your AI in the final version looks like more stupid and weak.
:shock:

Could you elaborate on that? What is exactly more efficient with your units in the beta? Does your units just have more energy/shielding or faster fire rate (I'm asking about those attributes because they are easy to modify in the save files)?

Are the more efficient units limited to the Resistance faction or are the units efficient on any faction you play as (For example, you play as the Ghorkovs fighting against AI Resistance Host Station, are the Resistance's or Ghorkovs' (AKA your) units more efficient)?
Actually I'm talking only about Resistance AI, because I haven't had the chance to play online with someone in the BETA 1; in any case, Resistance AI seems to be stronger: it seems to act like enemy AI! For example, it isn't as weak as your AI (whatever faction you play as) in the final version of the game.
I don't know if they have more energy, but surely they fight better, they don't act like "retarted" against enemy AI. Besides, I noticed that the Resistance Flak Station1 shoots faster!
:shock:

I took a quick glance into both executables (UA.exe and winypa.exe) and so far there was no evident difference found in AI modules between the beta and the final version of the game. Additionally in both versions of the game, there are no such hard-coded AI handicaps or impediments that are exclusively applied to player's factions either. :?

Therefore I suspect that, if there are any perceptible inconsistencies in the performances of AI units between these two versions, it would be most likely attributed to different physical properties or attack patterns (adist_ and sdist_) of the individual units rather than the fundamental AI algorithms in the code. (That is, if we disregard the obviously non-AI-relevant parts of the units such as energy/shield/weapon as already indicated by Paholainen, of course. ;) ) For instance, I remember that some units in the beta have old data values in the scripts that are only described as annotations in the final version of the game.

On a related note, Zidane's UA_Source is built after the final version of UA so playing the beta on it will inevitably cause some problems. I don't recommend it; and even if Zidane intends to extend the full UA:S support for Beta in future, it wouldn't be his top priority to execute at the moment. :mrgreen:
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Re: UA:Source

Post by Fra6160 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:38 pm

CharlotteLabyrinth wrote:
Fra6160 wrote:
Paholainen wrote: :shock:

Could you elaborate on that? What is exactly more efficient with your units in the beta? Does your units just have more energy/shielding or faster fire rate (I'm asking about those attributes because they are easy to modify in the save files)?

Are the more efficient units limited to the Resistance faction or are the units efficient on any faction you play as (For example, you play as the Ghorkovs fighting against AI Resistance Host Station, are the Resistance's or Ghorkovs' (AKA your) units more efficient)?
Actually I'm talking only about Resistance AI, because I haven't had the chance to play online with someone in the BETA 1; in any case, Resistance AI seems to be stronger: it seems to act like enemy AI! For example, it isn't as weak as your AI (whatever faction you play as) in the final version of the game.
I don't know if they have more energy, but surely they fight better, they don't act like "retarted" against enemy AI. Besides, I noticed that the Resistance Flak Station1 shoots faster!
:shock:

I took a quick glance into both executables (UA.exe and winypa.exe) and so far there was no evident difference found in AI modules between the beta and the final version of the game. Additionally in both versions of the game, there are no such hard-coded AI handicaps or impediments that are exclusively applied to player's factions either. :?

Therefore I suspect that, if there are any perceptible inconsistencies in the performances of AI units between these two versions, it would be most likely attributed to different physical properties or attack patterns (adist_ and sdist_) of the individual units rather than the fundamental AI algorithms in the code. (That is, if we disregard the obviously non-AI-relevant parts of the units such as energy/shield/weapon as already indicated by Paholainen, of course. ;) ) For instance, I remember that some units in the beta have old data values in the scripts that are only described as annotations in the final version of the game.

On a related note, Zidane's UA_Source is built after the final version of UA so playing the beta on it will inevitably cause some problems. I don't recommend it; and even if Zidane intends to extend the full UA:S support for Beta in future, it wouldn't be his top priority to execute at the moment. :mrgreen:
Yeah, probably you centered the point. In any case I'm playing UA beta 1 via Source, and it works fine: some issues have been improved, even if I can't actually see all beta 1 features - which however appeared irrilevant or too unpleasant.
But however you should notice this too:
- Bronsteijins are more lethal;
- Falcons missiles are more inaccurate in hitting an enemy;
- Resistance Flak Station 1 shoots faster.

Actually, one of the things I mostly wish to be restored in the Source is the shining square I talked about above.
THE FALL OF SDU MOD WORKS IN PROGRESS (16%) - STOPPED - ABANDONED

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Re: UA:Source

Post by Zidane » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:25 am

New build 0.93-1
Features:
Software clipping replaced with hardware. Which allowed fix texture distortion on near objects.

Software (distortion better seen in motion):
Image
Hardware:
Image

Reworked rendering queue.
Old rendering queue limited to 2100 polygons:
Image

Now it's dynamic and unlimited:
Image
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Re: UA:Source

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:00 pm

Phenomenal accomplishment, Zidane!

A quick test performed on my laptop has perfectly demonstrated the flawless polygon rendering performances.

Thereby 4000+ debug level Dragonflies in service are saluting your glittering achievement! (There are so many of them, even the compass cannot properly display them all!) :D

By the way, I would like to express my gratitude to you for extending the 32 units limit in each predefined squad as well. ;)


However, I have also noticed a small anomaly at rendering objects in far distance with the new 0.93-1 build. The links to the screenshots below are the direct comparison of horizon rendering between the former 0.92-7 build. The symptom is omnipresent and can be visible everywhere regardless of sets and terrains types.

0.92-7 Render
0.93-1 Render


Oh and one more thing, it seems the rendering limit for explosion effects remains unchanged. For the record, UA has a slide bar for adjusting the numbers of explosive GFX displayed in the game's options (default max is 16). Although it is not a problem for now.


EDIT: Another bug found in 0.93-1 build - unchecking the 'Horizon Depth' in the options also seems to disable the sky textures.
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Re: UA:Source

Post by teuzzz » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:27 pm

IT IS FINALLY HAPPEN!!!
Thank you very much Zidane for fixing the polygons limitation glitch, we are very happy to see this great progress!!!
and thank you very much for considered my previous words, we are all very excited and happy on discord.
finally i can continue to working on my mod without this big issue. (i'm working on it since 2015 about 5 hours per day with several breaks)

You literally save this game from disappering. (due to the old engine incompatibility on win 10).
Let me know if there is a way to make a donation or patreon, because i want to support your work.

btw i have a request if you don't mind:

These paramenters

pal_explode_slot
pal_explode_mag0
pal_explode_mag1
pal_explode_time

They are now unfortunately obsoletes due to the OpenGL rendering. I remember that they were only used on the Software mode.
they basicly created "colored flash effects on screen" once the unit is destroyed, very cool in my opinion.... there is maybe a way to bring him back in OpenGL rendering? (the current rendering for the source?)

Witing for your answer
best regards

TeuZzZ

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Re: UA:Source

Post by Zidane » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:35 pm

CharlotteLabyrinth wrote: However, I have also noticed a small anomaly at rendering objects in far distance with the new 0.93-1 build. The links to the screenshots below are the direct comparison of horizon rendering between the former 0.92-7 build. The symptom is omnipresent and can be visible everywhere regardless of sets and terrains types.

0.92-7 Render
0.93-1 Render
Looks like depth buffer problem - check it in video driver opengl settings, because I didn't notice nothing like this. Z-buffer must be 24bit for best quality.

Also I've notice little problem with max view distance and plan to rework it to static max 8192 like in original, not dynamic.

Also may be make transparent gradient for far distance where all polygons are black. And on maximum distance it will be 100% transparent and make sky "box" render without z-buffer test as simple bkg? It may helps in render far distance.
teuzzz wrote: btw i have a request if you don't mind:

These paramenters

pal_explode_slot
pal_explode_mag0
pal_explode_mag1
pal_explode_time

They are now unfortunately obsoletes due to the OpenGL rendering. I remember that they were only used on the Software mode.
they basicly created "colored flash effects on screen" once the unit is destroyed, very cool in my opinion.... there is maybe a way to bring him back in OpenGL rendering? (the current rendering for the source?)

Witing for your answer
best regards

TeuZzZ
Yes I thinks about this and it's hard to find solution for it because it originally use palette and dynamicly change it for these effects. May be do some post process shaders or render time shaders or apply it as vertex colors.... dont know for now.


ToDo on github https://github.com/Marisa-Chan/UA_source/wiki/TODO
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Re: UA:Source

Post by CharlotteLabyrinth » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:34 pm

Zidane wrote:
CharlotteLabyrinth wrote: However, I have also noticed a small anomaly at rendering objects in far distance with the new 0.93-1 build. The links to the screenshots below are the direct comparison of horizon rendering between the former 0.92-7 build. The symptom is omnipresent and can be visible everywhere regardless of sets and terrains types.

0.92-7 Render
0.93-1 Render
Looks like depth buffer problem - check it in video driver opengl settings, because I didn't notice nothing like this. Z-buffer must be 24bit for best quality.

Also I've notice little problem with max view distance and plan to rework it to static max 8192 like in original, not dynamic.

Also may be make transparent gradient for far distance where all polygons are black. And on maximum distance it will be 100% transparent and make sky "box" render without z-buffer test as simple bkg? It may helps in render far distance.
Understood, admittedly I hadn't had a chance to extensively test with my other computers this time for being away from my place. The problem with those display artifacts was indeed a minor issue with my laptop's driver configurations and so it has been mitigated now. Thanks for the correction! ;)

Also an implementation of transparent polygon textures to substitute depth buffering sounds interesting... Since the sky files in .BAS format also contain sections for the rendering distances in each sky dome so it might be possible to adjust them later in accordance with the new rendering methods.
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Re: UA:Source

Post by teuzzz » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:32 pm

CharlotteLabyrinth wrote: Oh and one more thing, it seems the rendering limit for explosion effects remains unchanged. For the record, UA has a slide bar for adjusting the numbers of explosive GFX displayed in the game's options (default max is 16). Although it is not a problem for now.
I noticed the same thing, i hope zidane will also take care of this. :)

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Re: UA:Source

Post by Bronsteijn24K » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:12 pm

Hey Zidane great work on the render limiter at last we can have full scale warfare.

I would also like to point out if you could fix a small AI bug.

Gun turrets have this weird flaw when controlled by the AI where they cannot fire if the target is directly north or south of them, like an artificial blind-spot. User controlled, it isnt a problem, but when flak stations cant shoot at their target because its right in front of them it can be annoying. Could you have a look?

Its most noticeable with the resistance flak station 1.
Image

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